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Submitted by Philipp Walter, posted on April 07, 2002




Image Description, by Philipp Walter



These are two screenshots from my new OpenGL project. Features:
  • terrain with a grid of 1024x1024 using VAR to achieve throughputs up to 12 MTris/sec
  • EMBM-Water with realtime reflections
  • skybox with moving cloud layers
  • simple particle system (2nd picture)
  • MD2/MD3 models
  • projective shadows
  • The terrain uses a very simple LOD system with 64x64 patches.These patches can have 4 different LOD states which depend on the distance from the camera.(I think on today´s GPUs this is probably the best thing to do or what do you think?). The water uses the texture shaders for perturbation.But this is still a little bit buggy because when you get too close to it the texture projection fails because the Geforce3 can´t do projective offset 2d texturing and so I have to do this myself... The shadows are just simple projective shadows. (black model rendered from lightpos and projected on the floor)

    Before someone has to ask for it:
    System specs: P4 2,0 GHz, Geforce 3

    Phil.


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    Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
     
    Flawless

    April 07, 2002, 07:41 PM

    Thanks alot!

    The only problem is, I don't have a GF3-class card either!! :-D

    Unfortunately, I only get the good *ideas*, never the good cards... they're so expensive!

    Well, I hope someone else will try this :-)

    Signing off, Flawless

     
    Dan4130

    April 07, 2002, 08:04 PM

    Most people say that the water is looking good, but unlike most peole, I like to disagree with stuff! Yeah! Ok, this is what "I" think needs work:

    *See how the water is rippley? Unless he was just takin a bath it shouldn't be that rippley. Especially in the mountain area!
    *Where the water meets the grass, needs work.
    *Also the Particle program, like you said "Simple"


    Those and the models could get some work. For a supper good model it usually runs around 7,000 polys. Besides all that, LOOKIN GOOD!

     
    Jonathan Fischer

    April 07, 2002, 08:12 PM

    Hey, it could be a windy day. Plenty of ripples then :)

    Jonathan

     
    disableddan

    April 07, 2002, 08:38 PM

    Even a calm breeze...
    or maybe, something from the depths of the water is stirring, and the "Doom Guy" has just barely escaped him....... :)

     
    Qix

    April 07, 2002, 08:54 PM

    - The ripples look great and add to the reality that it is WATER and not a mirror.
    - The water's edge drops off fast and needs no work near the grass
    - 7,000 polys?

    This is most likely the start of a kickass game project/engine. Waiting for a demo as pictures don't always do the justice some code deserves. :)

     
    Division By Zero

    April 07, 2002, 08:55 PM

    I can't agree that water must be as flat as mirror ... But I suppose its easy to take the ripples off...

    Of course, there may be windy day ... So water is not very big problem. But it can be corrected easily anyway

    But shadows are too black ... And yes, grass and water must be connected somehow...

     
    Matthew Morrow

    April 07, 2002, 10:00 PM

    cool


    need demo

     
    Luke Philpot

    April 07, 2002, 10:01 PM

    Beautiful clouds, the terrain is just excellent. The water would look better if it were transparent.

     
    Tristan

    April 07, 2002, 11:10 PM

    looks like a skybox to me

     
    Neophyte

    April 07, 2002, 11:16 PM

    Nice looking shots.

    But is it just me, or is the shadow in the bottom picture projected wrong? Seems to me like the head of the shadow is positioned at the models feet.

    Neophyte

     
    DirtyPunk

    April 08, 2002, 02:38 AM

    Incidently, so can the geforce3, but using combiners, not shaders :)

     
    Kezza

    April 08, 2002, 02:43 AM

    Personally on the ripple argument, i rekon you should take the middle ground...

    Flat reflections look bland as they have been used and abused even before the time of 3d hardware, and violent giant in a bathub ripples looks kind of.... fake?

    i believe you should put ripples around the edges (or in plalces where the water is shallow) perhaps applying alpha to two different water passes (ripple and shallow) or adding an extra parameter in your ripple generator (however you do it).

    Just thowing my pebble into this still pond :)

     
    bender

    April 08, 2002, 04:21 AM

    I don't quite get the argument for why geomipmapping algorithms is not a good alternative to e.g. Lindstrom and ROAM. In my opinion there are two advantages to geomipmapping.

    - You pregenerate the geometry data which saves a lot of CPU time. The graphics card may even work asynchronously.
    - Having a fixed chunk of geometry data makes it much faster to draw many more triangles than when drawing triangles individually. On my GF2 I can draw 2.5M triangles a second when drawing them individually and 24.5M when I draw them using display lists and triangle strips.

    So in my humble opinion I think that geomipmapping is very usefull today.

     
    Arne Rosenfeldt

    April 08, 2002, 04:36 AM

    but I guess it is absolutely poppingfree

     
    mattie

    April 08, 2002, 05:07 AM

    after having a second look, i tend to believe there's a possibility you're right.
    very perceptive! ;)
    it's actually funny now :)
    like these pics you can find on the internet that look totally realistic but are impossible
    "find the 5 bugs" :D
    there might be a future in generating such screenshots ;)

    btw,
    nice watershader

    greets,
    mattie

     
    dEViNiTY

    April 08, 2002, 05:16 AM

    Whoa!!! Neat eye candy

     
    d9930380

    April 08, 2002, 05:36 AM

    Richard Huddy from Nvidia says to use a non CLOD technique, as another poster said. Rebuildng the VB is pretty awful, even some sort of hybrid scheme probably wouldn't gain you any thing. As for not everyone has a GF3, we're only talking hw TnL and most cards (that we would support) will do this.

    As for the IOTD, looking very good, reminds me of Halo (and you can't get better than that :-)

     
    d9930380

    April 08, 2002, 05:38 AM

    Ah another example why Direct3D is better.

    Please excuse me I have to go erect my flame shield :-)

     
    Twig

    April 08, 2002, 05:59 AM

    Yeah, that's the one. Do that :)

     
    William Dahlberg

    April 08, 2002, 06:20 AM

    Wicked!

    Stunning lighting-effects and water!!!

     
    Countach

    April 08, 2002, 06:29 AM

    Cool stuff.

    How much time did it take you to get this far?

     
    =[Scarab]=

    April 08, 2002, 08:41 AM

    Ah another example why Direct3D is better.

    Not WHY it is better, WHERE it is better.

    Please excuse me I have to go erect my flame shield :-)

    Warcraft 2! :P

     
    KieranIsOK

    April 08, 2002, 08:43 AM

    You can have our radeon 8500 :)
    God help us if ati every got the job of writing drivers for altimeters in airplanes... ;)

     
    Philipp Walter

    April 08, 2002, 08:43 AM

    actually I don´t know where to start ,but I´ll try to answer a
    few questions:

    "How are you calculating the viewpoint of the reflected image?"
    camera position is mirrored down the water plane to get the reflected image and then projected on the water plane.

    "What do you mean by yourself? On the CPU? You can do the projection in a vertex program."
    Yes that´s what I meant by "myself" ,sorry.
    I am doing this in a vertex program...


    "Way to high polycount compared to what you get... only a few hills... "
    that´s what you see ,but as I don´t cull the tris underneath the
    water yet ,I get this very high polycount.

    When I said on today´s GPUs ,I meant today´s GPUs...
    somebody says not everyone has one but that´s not my problem.

    "whats a VAR?"
    vertex array range (gl extension from nvidia)

    "But is it just me, or is the shadow in the bottom picture projected wrong?"
    Now as you mention it ,it really looks kind of weird. But it just seems to be that picture.

     
    Muzza

    April 08, 2002, 08:59 AM


    //
    "How are you calculating the viewpoint of the reflected image?"
    camera position is mirrored down the water plane to get the reflected image and then projected on the water plane.
    //

    Well thats the correct method, but don't you agree that the visual results don't appear to be correct?
    The lake is not showing a mirror of the terrain above it.

    One other question.
    One problem I've had with reflections is that there is a small 'hole' between the terrain image and the reflection because the EMBM offsets the UV coords in such a way that the image will not perfectly align.
    You don't seem to have that problem. Any special tricks or did it just work out like that?
    What size texture are you rendering the inverted image to?

     
    gBit

    April 08, 2002, 10:52 AM

    If only my engine looked half as good. (But then I wrote it on my old Voodoo 3. Excellent job!!! The water looks really cool.

     
    cedifra

    April 08, 2002, 12:47 PM

    Better than Halo!
    ;-)

     
    BarretLee

    April 08, 2002, 12:54 PM

    Beautiful Work. Outstandinding water display. Umm will there be a demo for show anytime soon cuz were all dieing for one here M'kay

    - the big bad B...

     
    Philipp Walter

    April 08, 2002, 12:55 PM

    Well, Muzza I have to admit that the reflections are not 100% correct.
    But I think that has to do with my projection vertex program. The main
    problem is that the texcoords generated for each vertex are interpolated by opengl ,so to correct this I´d have to add more detail
    to the waterplane. How did you solve this problem?
    Texture size is 256x256.
    Phil.

     
    bgl

    April 08, 2002, 01:17 PM

    Just goes to show that good textures are crucial if you want to post an IOTD on Flipcode!

    What do you do with terrain blocks where two LOD blocks abut each other, to avoid cracking?

     
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