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Submitted by Bill Ferrer, posted on April 02, 2002

Image Description, by Bill Ferrer

Just wanted to send you guys this image. Its 4 screen shots of a R&D project and will eventually turn into a not yet announced game for the XBOX. The engine uses vertex and pixel shaders to do bump mapping, diffuse and specularity lighting. And has a portal system to do the geometry and light culling. The color of the lights seems to differ from each screen shot because the lights are flickering. Since it is an R&D project, all the art was either made by me (yay for programmer art) or taken from the web. The level was created in 3DS Max. My next step is to create shadows using vertex shaders.


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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.

April 03, 2002, 07:15 AM

Took you some time to figure it out, eh ? ;)

@DEVLiN: going d'accord with you...


April 03, 2002, 07:23 AM

All consoles in the past have died because they have not been upgradeable, sucky games, bad controls or lack of games and products for it. I do not see how the X-box is going to be different. Ok.. so it will most likely have tons of games. But will the games have content or will they only be "good looking"? I think the X-box will be dead in an year 'cause it is a expensive system that only says "Hahh, we've got more power than ps2". Nothing new is coming in it. except more process power.

Personally if I had a pc(which I have) and microsoft would say "Buy our console.. almost like a pc" then I would not buy it. 'Cause I already got a bigger, badder system. would you?

Ron Frazier

April 03, 2002, 07:53 AM

Not sure what you are talking about. Im not aware of anyone moving to object space for per pixel effect. Its not really feasible. The reason tangent space was used in the first place was because in order to do bump mapping in world or object space, you would need a separate copy of the bump map texture for each orientation of a surface. Using tangent space for bump maps allows us to use the same copy of the bump map no matter how the surface is oriented in world or object space. Defining bump maps in anything BUT tangent space is just not feasible.


April 03, 2002, 08:00 AM


How did you model the map in 3D Studio?, or rather how did you decide wich faces are portals and what sector they point to?



April 03, 2002, 08:58 AM

TimAidley: "I wish they had it in Return to Castle Wolfenstein"

They have - what? You didn't notice? That's because there aren't that many pitch black rooms with point lights flying around. There's even texture offset bump mapping in quake3 arena.
Because diffuse bumpmapping is almost view-independent (very subtle change with viewpoint), you have to have moving lights to make it more impressive. Specular and environment reflection bump mapping are much more obvious, but also much more expensive.


April 03, 2002, 09:01 AM

I'm sure you are. People of same sort like to group up. :)


April 03, 2002, 09:08 AM

Actually I read it at ZDnet as posted here on flipcode as well as on CNBC's Marketwatch. I know its a sick thing to watch but thats the only channel we have here where I work and its always on. I think it time to change programming jobs.

FYI, I'm strictly a Windows programmer who just happens to enjoy watching the alleged hypocrisy. Its a great laugh.


April 03, 2002, 09:20 AM

not to forget

Previously hosted on a FreeBsd/Apache but as can be seen, now on Win2k/IIS
This is the song of the 404...dumdidum.
Geeze, can this guys do ANYTHING right, just ANYTHING!
Surprisingly fast this anti unix campain is evolving to an exelcent unix campain. ;)))


April 03, 2002, 09:21 AM

It only helped it...
no matter what you had in your pocket, you could get something..

even if its VIP...


April 03, 2002, 09:24 AM


can't wait to see artist's programs. :-)


April 03, 2002, 09:28 AM

Now they have Windoze server with IIS, and look what happend...:)))

thorn out.


April 03, 2002, 09:28 AM

they have a "linux strategic manager" or something.. right?
quoted as saying linux wasn't seen as a contender...

( picture of gates appearing in crimson suit at Linus's desk day after day, trying to make a deal for Linus's sou- er. kernel )

next thing, x-box emulation of PS2, right ? ( shudders )...
'cept, its M$, so it'll run about as well as MS-Word did on the first
WINE alpha...

"the borg" indeed?


April 03, 2002, 09:31 AM

Isn't it time to write an xbox emulator for PC's? couldn't be to hard after all if you can even write a PS1 emulator for PC's ? :))

Shawn Kirst

April 03, 2002, 09:34 AM

*sigh* Some people haven't been around here long enough to get it. I get it. I remember those posts well. :)


April 03, 2002, 09:40 AM

Yes, that's also mentioned on the We Have The Way In site :)

Very funny indeed.


April 03, 2002, 09:42 AM

Nintendo games did well but 3rd party games didn't (with Rare being an exception) and alot of their revenue is generated by licenses to third parties.


April 03, 2002, 09:43 AM

if only M$ windows, office, and the other stuff thats $500+
worked as simply well as their mice and joysticks?

especially under linux.

why does M$ software suck so much? i keep forgetting

exit now

April 03, 2002, 09:45 AM

Indeed, I would hardly consider the N64 a flop.


April 03, 2002, 09:46 AM

Not surprising as it's really their console - just in the same way XBox is Nvidia's


April 03, 2002, 09:46 AM

I totally agree, the SideWinder Gamepads rule!


April 03, 2002, 09:50 AM

The thing with the unique hardware is a bad thing for sure. But it's not the harware vendors that need to change something about it. I don't think there is even anything that can be changed about it, because one main reason to buy new hardware, is to have a better result then before. If this wheren't the case, there wouldn't be a real point in any upgrade.
But games as they are now, live from hardware ( no whining now about old times and better story, those days are definitly gone!! ). So we can't just stop the selling of different and improoved hardware.
The task is to give the api designers, wich should in turn make sure that the programmed things looke nearly comparable on different hardware. Not as bad as the badest hardware because then again buying new hardware would be pointless.
If you expirience things like a programm not running on a slightly different hardware platform, then you haven't been programming with portability in mind. Because for the most common problems to solve about a game or any given software, there is a good hardware independent api. With some efford you can even get your programm to run on several different OS without reprogramming, but again, you got to pay attention.


April 03, 2002, 09:59 AM

You know, what I realy hate is that M$ has already stolen some games from the pc market. Ok, it can be seen as compeditive decision of those companys to rather develop for xbox then for pc. On the other hand, if they continue in this rate to force pc game developers to make xbox games ( I don't know how somebody could force that, but I do know that a few billion bucks are good for something at least ) then you can also face the whole thing as an atack on the pc games market itself. No, they aren't stealing our customers, they steal diversity and contest on the pc-games market wich is worse then stealing customers.


April 03, 2002, 10:02 AM

M$ vs Sony vs Nintendo vs X86


April 03, 2002, 10:09 AM

That's exactly what isn't going to work. I'v thought about this xbox2 thematic myself, and I think that M$ has to carefully concider when they are realeasing an improoved xbox. If they do it too soon, they will loose almost every customer who bought an xbox1. If they do it too late, they have to regain ground ps3 will have covered. And I don't know if they can in their next gen get more people to play their hardware then they now could. One could say the timing was not the best.
Anyways, tossing generation after generation of consoles at a saturdated market isn't the best idea a company can follow in my opinion. An xbox can't realy compete with the evolution rate of PCs. It's merly a snapshot of pc hardware how it could have been 1 1/2 years before release. And that's one of it's main weaknesses.


April 03, 2002, 10:27 AM

Why do you 'hate' microsoft? Some of you sound like you're in your early teens, using words like 'hate' in reference to a software house.
Do you have any idea how complicated MS Windows is? Or how bloody good it is at its job? If you've any programming experience at all you should be in complete awe that such a product has been created by human beings. It has bugs, but I'd be frightened if it didn't. Why don't you try and write an operating system yourselves? Go on, load up MS Visual C++ and start writing something to even compare with MS Windows.
That's just my opinion :)


April 03, 2002, 10:33 AM

I don't recall seeing any form of bumpmapping (be it DOT3 or emboss) in Q3 and I play it a lot...

RTCW is essentially the same engine so there isn't any in that either.

You could probably hack a simple emboss bump map effect with the shader scripts but you'd need to give it fixed UV offsets rather than having it depend on actual light sources...

Hiro Protagonist

April 03, 2002, 10:35 AM

The ignorance displayed in this thread is enough to make me vomit.
Thorn, you should seek mental help.

The korean market is where the XBOX is going to flex its muscle, the Koreans will not buy japanese game consoles, and as such the Japanese won't sell them. So XBOX will be the first console introduced into that market. A market by the way where the majority of the households have broadband connections! They are way ahead of the rest of the world there.

Saying that you hate MS and you hope everything they do will fail, is just indicative of how ignorant you are. Get over yourself, the bandwagon left a year ago and you weren't on it.

Hiro Protagonist

April 03, 2002, 10:57 AM

You are an idiot.


April 03, 2002, 11:26 AM

Just because one giant company came out with a console and dominated the market doesn't mean that every giant company that comes out with a console and throws a lot of money at it will dominate.



April 03, 2002, 11:36 AM

Yeah, I was wondering this a few days ago: how could a company that made the Sidewinder gamepad and many other great devices have come up with the awful XBox controller? It doesn't make sense...


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