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Submitted by Bruno Cesteiro, posted on September 17, 2001

Image Description, by Bruno Cesteiro

This picture is from an Engine i'm making.., When it's done it will be used for a game me and some friends are planning to do for quite some time.

The outdoor rendering is handled by a quadtree, indoor is a portal engine. There are two types of possible structures on the landscape, structures that have a connection to an indoor level, and structures that don't have a connection.

This structures are stored at the quadtree nodes. As a result the engine can have connections to any number of indoor levels. I'm currently optimizing the engine to be faster.., collision detection( on the outdoor) is eating lot's of processing power and it's not very precise.. to check it, just stop moving while in the landscape to see the fps increase.

well, that's it, hope you like it It has been tested on Gf1/2/3 and it runs ok read the text file attached as there are several options on the console More screenshots and a download at my webpage


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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
David Adams

September 17, 2001, 01:17 PM

Downloaded to check it out... Norton tells me it has a virus, so I deleted it.


September 17, 2001, 01:41 PM

How did you download it without a link?


Kurt Miller

September 17, 2001, 01:47 PM

I pulled the link shortly after he mentioned the virus. I contacted the author, hoping he'll update the file; and I'll restore the link.


September 17, 2001, 01:55 PM

Looks very nice.
Are you using some sort of Scene Graph to hold the level together?
It's very simple to combine different culling methods in one game/app using a scene graph. I don't know how high the speed hit is having all quadtree, BSP etc. classes derive from a scene graph base class, but it makes life so much simpler. (and by life I mean programming, not the other thing with the bright red ball in the sky)


September 17, 2001, 02:06 PM

very cool to see this combination. please share a bit about how you create your portal-based content w.r.t. modelers, converters (looks like a quakex-like bsp converted), etc.


Derek Simkowiak

September 17, 2001, 02:29 PM

I'd love to know the tech details, too.

How is the Landscape stored? Any LOD on the landscape? How do you know when to switch from the Quadtree to the portal codepath? Can you go "underground" in your indoor levels? If so, how do you handle the landscape data to not render in the middle of your indoor level? Etc.

Lion V

September 17, 2001, 02:37 PM

Are those curves I see ?
Nice hands.
Can you give some tech details ?

Saru Ilie

September 17, 2001, 02:43 PM

... but aren't quad trees used for 2D graphics? How did you used it for terrain rendering?


September 17, 2001, 02:48 PM

Quadtrees are used to subdivide something in two dimensions. Since a terrain is mostly a 2D heightfield, it can perfectly be used for terrain rendering also.


September 17, 2001, 02:56 PM

Great engine. Can you please do a webiste on it. Keep up the good work


September 17, 2001, 03:20 PM

looks good
but try not to rip someone else's textures
it seems clear they are from q3a

actually i don't really care if a program still contains ripped textures if it's still unreleased, but after exposing images -> the public it might be a little bit embarassing, that's why i try to avoid it.

keep it up

Craig Rennie

September 17, 2001, 03:39 PM

not to mention illlegal :)


September 17, 2001, 04:16 PM

The technology looks nice but as other have mentioned, you could get in trouble for redistributing copyright textures (the Q3 texture on the building) and models (isn't that the Quake 2 super shotgun?) even if its within a free demo.

The Wolf

September 17, 2001, 05:00 PM

Very nice work
Question: the indoor levels, are you using a BSP renderer? Or just plain portal?

and is it heightmap for the terrain? or procedural?


September 17, 2001, 05:02 PM

Damn.., i wasn't aware that my computer had virus.. anyways, i already cleaned it up, and a free-virus version is already online at my web-page. Let's wait for Kurt to check it, and he will give you guys the link.

Dr.Mosh/ _b3 / Derek Simkowiak
The indoor levels are modeled in q3Radiant and compiled to a bsp file. a Nate Miller bspconv modified version is then used to convert the files to my own file format.
q3radiant let us create all new kind of structure, so i have created a kind of sector in wich i have a flag that indicated that there is a door to the landscape there.When i'm in that door is when i switch between quadtree/portal. I can go underground, or do whatever i want because when i'm inside some level, the landscape is not rendered.

Lion V
nope.., no curves..

I'm aware of the quake3 textures problem, but we are not planning to use their textures.,in fact in the readme file that i have attached to the engine, i give ID credits for the textures.



September 17, 2001, 05:06 PM

Just giving credit is not enough with commercial stuff!

Anyways, I have a question regarding your terrain/indoor level integration. How do you actually place the indoor levels into the terrain. Do you CSG the levels out of the terrain? Or do you model the levels, so that they will fit nicely?

Keep up the good work ... it looks really nice. If you add some more unique artwork it'll even be better.

- Marco

Louis Howe

September 17, 2001, 05:06 PM

Hey, nice work! I can only wonder about what kind of game you are working on.

On a side note, are those Tribes 2 ground textures? Sorry...they seem familiar. I don't think it's a big deal if you're using commercial textures in your own projects. Your program is entirely free, right? I wonder how many people here use cracked versions of 3D Studio, Lightwave, Photoshop, etc.


September 17, 2001, 05:20 PM

Hmm, and that begs the question... Is it worse to steal textures for a free project, or create your own using pirated software? :)


September 17, 2001, 05:25 PM

I model the levels so that they fit nicely.., they are modeled and then loaded into an editor i have made, where i move them around and place them where ever i want..


Louis Howe

September 17, 2001, 05:27 PM

Exactly! I still don't think it's a big deal.


September 17, 2001, 05:29 PM

hmmm, i really don't know where they came from., i got them in the Xengine from glVelocity.., i don't know where tim got them., but once again, those textures won't be used in the game.


September 17, 2001, 05:32 PM

it's plain portal.
It's a heightmap loaded from a tga file.


Jeff Quesnelle

September 17, 2001, 05:53 PM

Me cracked versions? No...


September 17, 2001, 07:31 PM

Technically it doesn't matter if your project is free or not. If you redistribute someone else's copyright work you are breaking the law. Its always better to create your own textures, even if the result is some 'programmer's art.'

Of course, id software is much less likely to sue for this than for another commercial game using their textures, but this is an imporant thing to watch out for.


September 17, 2001, 08:27 PM

hi :)

i am using quadtree for outdoor and portal for indoor too.
but the painfull part is, i create my game level with 3dsmax
and i have to split (in 3dsmax)the outside wall of the buildings.

i split it into 2 part, the inner wall for indoor sector and the
outer wall for quadtree outdoor.
i think this is pain for the artist.

seems like he already blast the virus off
hey Kurt... i want the link :)


September 17, 2001, 09:22 PM

Nice engine, it looks very cool! How do you do the lighting effects? They look nice from the distance in the pic. As for the textures and model, well, it's just a demo. I'm sure they wouldn't harass you too much if you posted a screenshot or two, as long as they're credited (which I believe you said they were).

Good luck with your game as well! Do you have a site set up for it?

no way

September 17, 2001, 10:39 PM

On subject of "suffering from programmers art", the best way to avoid this is to do procedural stuff. It doesnt need to be realtime-generated with continous LOD, can be done while loading or somesuch. Works very well for natural objects, and for artificial objects that follow some (semi-)regular pattern like stone walls for example.
Im actually trying to create various kinds of geometry procedurally as well.

Jason Kozak

September 17, 2001, 10:56 PM

Any good links on procedural textures?

And for the *cough* who's waiting to jump on me, I use google daily, but it doesn't catalog everything, nor point out the best links. Unlike one poster here (who's name I can't recall), I don't think bad links are still good to read; misinformation does all sorts of damage.


September 18, 2001, 01:40 AM

Good little engine you got there. I've a few comments though:

1) When you transition from inside to outside, you seem to drop quite a bit, or the ground gets highter, not sure which.

2) Also, the lightmaps on the inside change somewhat when you go outside. They all lighten up a bit.

3) I explored the first building, then walked into the water outside, and it locked right up on me. Had to reboot.

My specs: PIII 600, 256MB, GeForce2 MX400.


Alexander Blach

September 18, 2001, 02:12 AM

Red ball in the sky? It became a red giant yet? Damn - I definitely missed something there...

Back to coding.

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