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Submitted by Louis-Charles Dumais, posted on August 07, 2001




Image Description, by Louis-Charles Dumais



Hi, First let me introduce the URL then I will explain what Genu is all about:
http://www.gel.ulaval.ca/~dumais01/genu/

Genu is an interface to C++ which responds to some hiatus of the langage. Genu is here to respond to the none intuitive approach of text base c++ and the increasing complexity of projects generated by the open source community.It brings to the user:
  • Intuitive approach to programmation with the analogy of C++ and tree.
  • Interface for managing complex projects and instant recognition of important part of the program
  • Thank you
    louis


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    Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 01:14 AM

    you:1) Anytime I clicked and tried to rotate/move , the scene would
    fly out of view, and I get the dreaded "nothing but black"
    me: this is not my fault, its your geforce1. see the faq at:
    http://www.gel.ulaval.ca/%7Edumais01/genu/faq.html

    2) It locked up when I tried to load any code but the sample one.
    see the next release Genu_044 no more problem on this side

    3) You have to do something about the toolbar icons. I mean. . . look at them! Read some of Edward Tufte's books (the parts relating to color usage in design)
    I will take a look

    for all the rest, I must say that you r a great tester. I will try to fixe everything.

    see ya soon!
    louis

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 01:15 AM

    See the tutorial 2 on the website for more information.

    and download the last release 044 too;-)

    louis

     
    Harold

    August 08, 2001, 01:36 AM

    If all these coders don't like it, you are obviously onto something good. Non-textual programming is an interesting concept and the idea should definitely be explored more.

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 01:45 AM

    Hi everyone!(ready for a long message?)

    I have been working on this project a lot of time today(need some
    relaxation here). However, it surprises me to see how differentpeople
    react about the Genu because its something new and by the way hard to
    compare.

    I have released today Genu_044_release which fix the infinite loop while opening an incompatible file with Genu.

    Most important than all, I posted on the tutorial section of the Genu website "Tutorial 2: My first c++ project using Genu " which I think will help more than 75% of programmers figure out how to use genu to build simple c++ projects.

    thats all for tonigth, tomorrow I will post a message here to explain
    where Genu come from, why am I putting so much efforts in this project
    and what are the implication of Genu in the future(All I can say is that Foper in its post is not far from reality).

    good night all, tomorrow is science fiction
    louis

     
    Hiro Protagonist

    August 08, 2001, 03:07 AM

    Tom Sawyer was already taken.

     
    Samy

    August 08, 2001, 03:23 AM

    I think it is for dependance of class in c++

    Very cool project


    SAmy

     
    RyseFtk

    August 08, 2001, 04:19 AM

    Not really. Static images (so all that is not animated (which might change if you start turning and twisting the tree but that is a different story)) should not be rendered in a way that FPS count is important. As long as you do not need to redraw, you should not. This will greatly reduce the overall stress on the system you are working on. Plus if the user is actually modifying the tree, s/he should expect that the software might need some power and would not wonder why suddenly all his/her apps are running a lot slower than before.

    Maybe that should be redesigned, I did not look at the programm running here, yet.

     
    flure

    August 08, 2001, 04:24 AM

    weird, i've never seen any Case nor Molly Millions ...

     
    Jerran

    August 08, 2001, 04:35 AM

    My first post! (sorry for my poor grammatic)

    I tested out Genu and to me it seems very promissing project what so ever. I builded up test project and it does the job just fine. But I agree with Katascope about the need of another round of evolution.

    What's bugging me is that code it imports is very unflexiple, it does not assume anything, just plain crash if I just change things out of it's way.

    It does no tabbing to source files and makes it looks quite messy on anything else than Genu itself. The text editor in Genu is bit too simple and it has no fixed width what I really needed. Color highlights would be cool too.

    Then other idea would be that Genu would save it's own descriptions for incubes, functions and other stuff to own separate file, not to source directly, it just makes it look messy with every other editor.

    Oh, and those icons reminds me of ICQ :)

    But these all are cosmetic things, the basic concept sounds very promissing. I guess those missing things will come naturally with in timecycle you develope it, I definetly would like to use it when it's more ready, keep up good work!

     
    Ima Flammer

    August 08, 2001, 05:41 AM

    I like it....I like it alot. Always have to give support to people who code new and different things. Even if it is not so good at the moment. Give it time, the best is yet to come. Coders kick arse!!!

     
    MikeW

    August 08, 2001, 07:21 AM

    "people who have "Neo" as their nick are secretly screaming out their gay love for Keanu (duuuude!) Reeves."

    Unless of course, they are female!

    Mike.

     
    wyldeling

    August 08, 2001, 08:38 AM

    I downloaded Genu, and it looks like it could be quite interesting. Rotating the branches seemed to act a bit odd. But, all in all, not bad at all for the stage it is in.

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 08:50 AM

    You guys are great and I have something important and special to ask you:

    HELP ME! to find a suitable presention-description for Genu. The present one does not seems to be good enough ;-). (The description have to be understandable by programmers and non-programmers.)

    thank you for your help
    louis

     
    Kythen

    August 08, 2001, 09:15 AM

    I think what you should aim for with this program is a modeling tool rather than a C++ coding tool. With it's concentration on OOP, I think it is more suited for designing a large complex program rather than actually coding it. Instead of having it only use C++ with all it's quirks, perhaps give something like UML a try. In regards to technical details, Katascope covered all the issues I would have mentioned. Anyway, keep up the good work!

     
    BLiTZWiNG

    August 08, 2001, 09:18 AM

    I read your front page, and I read your FAQ. I can only conclude that you're an arrogant prick. When people have questions about your product, it means the answer is not obvious to them, even though it may be to you. Don't just laugh at them, provide that seemingly obvious response, and maybe you should add a few more questions to your "faq"... if you can call it that.

    I'd also try giving some more details about your app on your web site so that people don't have to spend hours working out what the hell it is that you have created. If your aim is making programming easier for everyone, stop now, for you don't have the gift...

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 09:30 AM

    hum,

    You do not seems to like my sense of humour... the .h files was a joke for someone I meet and who said that the project was going no where cause I dont use .h file in Genu. I will remove this right now for not annoying you again.

    Geeks humour is hard,
    louis

     
    Punchey

    August 08, 2001, 09:33 AM

    Too violent looking what with all the sharp edges and such. What's with people making these games for children!?!? Come on! Don't we have enough gore and violence to deal with in the movies?

    Nifty concept BTW. And to all of you who don't think it's intuitive, the first incarnations of such revolutionary ways of looking at things often (if not always) fall short of their mark. Just wait for it to be refined.

    :-)

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 09:51 AM

    I must excuse myselft for refering you to the FAQ(I forgot to upload the updated faq.html file yesterday. Its all my fault :-( ).

    I post it right now and yes I will bring more Question to the FAQ.

    Completely sorry,
    louis

     
    David Frey

    August 08, 2001, 10:00 AM

    Concerning the "Geforce bug", how deep do you push the modelview stack? Are you certain you are within the limit set by the OpenGL driver? That is, are you first checking to see how big the modelview stack can get? E.g. glGetIntegerv(GL_MAX_MODELVIEW_STACK_DEPTH,&max_stack_depth)

     
    CGI Joe

    August 08, 2001, 10:00 AM

    If I understand everything correctly - I think this is a great idea. It'd be great for designing a really complex program which would possibly need modifying later.

    Also, it would useful if you were to load an old project. You'd see exactly how it all fits together.

    I find myself following the program flow a lot trying to figure what I did! This would just show me - very cool. I'd like to see a finished version of this :D

     
    CGI Joe

    August 08, 2001, 10:02 AM

    I'd imagine a finished version would be fully customisable.

     
    Katascope

    August 08, 2001, 10:15 AM

    I agree with Kythen, trying to write actual code in this setup could be very cumbersome. It's inherent strength is in visualizing structure. In that sense why not add a form of syntax coloring (with tables for c/pascal/xml/html/java/perl/etc). It might be slightly off from what you were planning, but a more generalized code visualizer with the ability to link to external source/files would be very useful. A dual visualizer and external caller (right click on unit, select compile, or edit). I thought the ConText editor (available on geeknews.com) did this quite well. You set up function keys to call external commands (javac %n, gcc %n). Then the user can plug in whatever tools/compilers they want. Trying to force developers to author in just Genu will just alienate them. Make it work with their other tools and you become a hero.

     
    kewldude

    August 08, 2001, 10:39 AM

    It's not your fault? Dont use pushmatrix and popmatrix too much in the first place, just wrap the functions, as in do your own push and pop functions(probably faster if implemented right).

     
    pull9

    August 08, 2001, 11:35 AM

    I think the biggest problem with traditional modelling methods is that they focus on things that are explicitly said in the code: class hierarchies and such, and then throw in tools to define higher-level information as an afterthought. I can read from the definition that class FOO is a BAR and has a BAZ, and damn it all for using a language which says it in a gross way, and it all that I have to fire up another tool in order to make others understand it.

    I, personally, prefer programming languages which help (and sometimes force) me model what something is and how it relates to something else. Haskell is a great example. Instead of defining HOW something is (and then sugaring it with diagrams to show what it is in relation to other things), you define WHAT something is, from the top down, in a concise manner.

    I like the literate mode, which makes commenting easier than writing code (which it should be). For instance, you should be able to copy and paste this document into a .lhs file and run it with hugs.

    I like the type identifiers:

    > miniature :: Ord a => [ a ] -> a

    Says that the miniature function relates to orderable objects, taking a list of them and returning one of them (specifying which one is left up to the comment).

    I like the fact that you're encouraged to program in a top-down fashion with 'where' as opposed to 'let'.

    > c = a . b
    > where a = (+1)
    > b = (-1)

    In short, my language feels like my modelling tool.

    But that's just me...

     
    fatbuddha

    August 08, 2001, 11:38 AM

    Very interesting project. The main difficulty that you're going to come accross, is trying to find the best way of designing the layout of the data.

    Although there is certainly a challenge in the programming - the really hard work is trying to work out a flexible and intuitive way of displaying this information onscreen. Moreover, a way that justifies being done in 3D rather than 2D, or even just a simple treeview or list.

    I only say this, because I spent some time a couple of years ago, making a fancy 3D visualisation system for looking at (and interacting with) all of the files on a computers drives, the tasks being run, short cuts between files, and so on. After working on the project for two or three months (until it was useable) - I realised that the main flaw with the programme was that I had concentrated too much on making the programme work, rather than making the design work. The programme looked really good, but I found it very difficult to justify all the fancy 3D stuff, when a simple treeview is so much better. I hate to say it - but Windows Explorer is pretty difficult to beat.

    Anyhow - good luck with the programme, and hope you can make it work as well, as it looks good.

     
    TimD

    August 08, 2001, 11:42 AM

    The second tut helped tremendously. The only really major hold up I have to the concept is what about preexisting files that were built outside Genu? From looking at the code variations between Genu and standard code it looks like we should be able to convert code to Genu fairly easily although time consumming. What would be nice would be a semi intuitive parser to open the file and make most of the trivial changes automatically. The rest could possibly be entered using a modified version of your current editor. Having said this you probably have already planned for this and might even be covered in your hinted at 3rd tutorial.
    Keep up he good work. I like the concept.

     
    Buster

    August 08, 2001, 12:26 PM

    A DWORD looks like a yellow triangle. Duh!

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 12:46 PM

    I will add a button to stop the tree to rotate in the next release so no more redraw with the timer.

    Sorry, I'm used to implement this in my projects but here I just forgot.

    see Genu_045_release for more info(should be up tomorrow)

    Have fun,
    louis

     
    [-WD40-]

    August 08, 2001, 12:49 PM

    That's a great idea for it could be used actually for something....but surely not in this state, and not for large scale project as it was designed for. The representation would be somewhat confusing if you'd have for instance 30 classes with 10 functions each. And how are descendant class handled? It would be great if we wouldn't have to type all the code like for example we could type in a class' name box: MyApplication. and this would be derived from a class say CApplication so then it would generate the proper class definition: (maybe not always public)

    class MyApplication : public CApplication
    {
    public:
    MyApplication();
    virtual ~MyApplication();
    };





    I just don't see the point of having to type in all the code for everything...

     
    Genu

    August 08, 2001, 12:50 PM

    This will be hard but I will implement an import function for code build out of Genu.

    Enjoy!
    louis

     
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