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Submitted by 3TE Team, posted on July 10, 2001




Image Description, by 3TE Team



We have been working very hard for a long time. We have just finished our 2.Tech demo. You can download the demo from our site. We are waiting your critics about it.

In this version:
  • 1) We made many changes and improvements to the training level as you will see.
  • 2) We added Shader technology to our 3D engine. It will be improved in later versions. Some of the features you will see are:
  • Water
  • Transparent surfaces
  • Animated textures
  • Moving, rotating etc. textures
  • Environment mapped surfaces
  • 3) Dont forget to turn your speakers on to hear the background music and sound effects.
  • 4) You can change many features of the 3D engine&Game by using our console.
  • 5) We improved the physics of walking, running, crouching for a better experience.
  • 6) We corrected the collision bug which causes you pass through the solid surfaces.
  • 3TE Team
    Cem UZUNLAR Hakan YÜKSEL
    http://3tegames.com


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    Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
     
    nosfy

    July 10, 2001, 01:20 PM

    Pretty neat.

    I especially like the liquid coming out of the barrel.

    Are the shadows calculated in realtime or they are lightmaps?

     
    tuler

    July 10, 2001, 01:33 PM

    Nice image!
    But the effect of the light on the wall is very strange.
    I mean, those are spot lights, but the calculation is done as if they were point lights, I guess. And the floor is not iluminated.
    Is the lighting real time or pre-calculated?

    -- Tuler

     
    NEGA

    July 10, 2001, 01:42 PM

    hmm, i noticed the light thing too, but on closer inspection it seems to have a cone like appearance (eg. spotlight), but the lightmaps are offcentered too far up, at least thats what it seems like too me, maybe im wrong and they are calculated like point lights, either way nice pic

     
    John van der Burg

    July 10, 2001, 02:06 PM

    you can see that it are pointlights.
    the pointlight is in the center of the light on the wall, and the lamp casts shadow, so it looks a bit like it are 2 cones (spotlights)
    At least that's what I see in it :)

    But, it's looking good! :)
    Keep up the good work!

    - John

     
    Derek Simkowiak

    July 10, 2001, 02:10 PM

    The translucent "light cone" (is there an official name for it?) gives the visual impression that the light is directed, like a flashlight, car headlights, or sunlight beam shining through a window.

    Yet your shadowmaps give the impression the lights are calculated like point lights; i.e., NOT directed. These conflicting messages make the scene seem unnatural. For example, there is a lighted spot on the wall above the light cone boundary. In the real world, the light cone gives you a bounding cone of where the light will travel (with only a very small amount of ambient light due to atmosphere and reflections).

    I am curious to know how you handle the collision detection in the BSP (assuming your map is a BSP). Last night I got BSP collision detection working for my Quake2 BSP renderer :)

    I'd also like to know how you manage your vertexes. Do you use Display Lists? Vertex Arrays?


    Derek Simkowiak
    dereks at realloc dot net

    P.S.> Don't British people use a wacky name for flashlights? "Torch" or something like that?

     
    Cem UZUNLAR

    July 10, 2001, 02:28 PM

    You can download our 2.tech demo to see it in action.
    http://3tegames.com
    i'd like to hear your opinions for the whole demo.

     
    lycium

    July 10, 2001, 02:31 PM

    nice pic, pity about the light thing though... although i suspect it's a small thing to fix in the lightmapper (assuming you're using ray tracing and not radiosity, it's a 10 minute fix).

    since you're supporting shaders (i assume you mean pixel and vertex shaders), why don't you start taking advantage of the extra triangles you can push with the cards supporting those features? i have yet to see a game with any more triangles used than quake3, and it's been a while since the gayforce1 has been released...

    the mouse sampling isn't being interpolated, is it? on my machine with a genius netmouse pro (getting it upgraded soon) the sampling was really horrible. there was a nice question on ask midnight about that, check it.

     
    DennisM

    July 10, 2001, 02:36 PM

    With shaders he probably means shader scripts like in Quake 3.

     
    Catfish

    July 10, 2001, 03:36 PM

    Yep, us wacky Brits are at it again.

    That really threw me - a while ago I was chatting to some American, & happened to mention torches. I couldn't figure out what he didn't understand...

     
    Derek Simkowiak

    July 10, 2001, 03:59 PM

    This says it all:

    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010710/hl/britain_drinking_1.html

    To us, a "torch" is generally a piece of wood with an oil- or gas- (um, petrol?) soaked rag on the end, with that end lit on fire.

    Actually, here's the number one definition right out of Webster's:
    ------
    1 : a burning stick of resinous wood or twist of tow used to give light and usually carried in the hand : FLAMBEAU

    The other one that always cracks me up is the way you use the word "holiday". "He's on holiday". Is it a noun? A verb? U.S. Americans say "I'm going on vacation", but that's just slang for "I'm going on a vacation" where "vacation" is a noun.


     
    LacrosseGoalie

    July 10, 2001, 03:59 PM

    This is a very nice IOTD. I really love the liquid coming out of the barrel. I am also curious about the lights (pre calc or realtime). I will download the demo and try it. Does this use OpenGL or DirectX?

     
    Dodger_

    July 10, 2001, 04:21 PM

    And the number one definition from the Oxford Dictionary(British dictionary) is:

    tor-ch [tOtS] n. & v. --n. 1 (also electric torch) Brit. a portable battery-powered electric lamp.

    Dodger_

     
    hdmx

    July 10, 2001, 04:25 PM

    holi-day Brit also -di/ n (a) a period away from work... (b) a day when no work is done
    holi-day v to spend a holiday

    I prefer Ferien though and I hope I will get some soon :)

    hdmx

     
    davepermen

    July 10, 2001, 04:38 PM

    even in radiosity, it should be no problem to solve the problem, in fact it should even not appear at all there;)

    i'm very interested:
    precalculated lightmaps, i suppose
    => raytracing? radiosity?
    geometry: bsp? how do you do the maps? qeradiant?
    playable: is it playable? all links i found on your page pointed to a not_found file.. and the page is not in english, so i had problems to find anything;) could you please post in the direct link to version 2? i would be very interested.. the shaders do look so far so nice ( suppose q3-style selfdone (multipass-)shaders, not pixelshaders/registercombiners.. looks nice, really.. if you get the bug, its nearly perfect:)


    somehow it remembers me on goldeneye on n64.. nice design

     
    Buster

    July 10, 2001, 04:39 PM

    I'll hold off on saying the picture is too dark, but hey wait a minute... It's too dark!

    Try putting some light in there.

     
    Silentbreed

    July 10, 2001, 04:53 PM

    Nice still, looks pretty fly ... Tried downloading the tech demo, but both ftp's were horribly slow for me (+-500b/s).

    Oh and btw, most of the questions/issues mentioned here can be found by going to their webpage. So before you're going to be the next to speculate about the lighting or to ask what editing tool they used, go visit the website :)

     
    Doc Kennedy

    July 10, 2001, 09:51 PM

    I'm wondering about the pool of water. I'm assuming that it's just a polygon with phong maps of the reflecting light sources. It look a little odd. I can see one light that's reflecting, however the other one at the same height appears not to be.. at all. I mean, it's right by it. Why is that? What are you doing there? Despite there not being a pool to totally reflect it, It looks odd. Are you only showing light sources that whose sources are inside the pool?

     
    EGreg

    July 10, 2001, 10:44 PM

    Well, that demonstrates a number of good techniques that you employ in the demo. As people ahve said, the lighting is not the way it should be -- either make some kind of frustum for the light or cast a shadow from the lamp onto the scenery.

    Also, how does the water reflect things? It seems that it reflects a general ambience of light, but how do you calculate it?

    Overall, nice art and stuff.

    Looking forward to the game, if I have the money :-)

    Cheers,
    Greg

     
    Duncan

    July 10, 2001, 11:25 PM

    Snazzy.

     
    WhardieJones

    July 10, 2001, 11:37 PM

    I can tell a newbie programmer when I see one because they act like they are experts yet all they talk about is beginner crap because thats all they know.

    In this case, Mr. Smarty Pants likes to bitch about pointlights. Wow aren't you so observent?

     
    NEGA

    July 10, 2001, 11:49 PM

    well now that i tried the demo, and i am impressed, although the framerate wasn't staggerting, i get way higher than that in quake 3 with bot ai and alot more poly detail, but overall nicely done. It has nice bsp implementation, almost SOF style but no exploding body parts, hah ;) The only other thing was the enviroment mapped objects, mainly the water and metal, not too sure if it was sphere or cube mapping, but annoyed me greatly on the cabinets and liquids. Get rid of it, try using specular and emissive lighting, that usually does the trick.

    -Wait one more thing, i noticed that the floors and walls were smoothly blurred with distance, instead of the line articles produced by trilinear filtering, did you use aniotropic or higher mip lod's?Because the effect was very nice compared to all the other FPS Engines.

     
    Mark Friedenbach

    July 10, 2001, 11:55 PM

    Wow. I nearly laughed my ass off when read that. I assure you, Mr. van der Burg is by no means a newbie, and does know what he is talking about. And I don't think anyone here that's been around long enough to see his really cool work at MysticGD (IOTDs here, here, here, here, and here - be sure to check the dates) would believe contrary to that.

     
    Mark Friedenbach

    July 10, 2001, 11:58 PM

    I think you have bilinear and trilinear filtering confused - trilinear filtering usually does give you that "smoothly blurred" effect you speak of...

     
    Arne Rosenfeldt

    July 11, 2001, 02:57 AM

    He did not talk about the

    usual "smoothly blurred" effect,
    but the one on the floor (looking at a sharp angle)

    Maybe I should run the demo, when I am home

     
    Pants

    July 11, 2001, 04:12 AM

    Hehehe!

     
    Pants

    July 11, 2001, 04:14 AM

    I've got to say it again

    hehehe!

    ancy saying that about John Van der Burg.

    Again

    Hahahhhaaa.!!

     
    Nick

    July 11, 2001, 04:18 AM

    And you were an expert the day you were born, of course!

    Even if John's a newbie (he's not), what's your problem? Why do you suddenly start calling people idiots because they say something about pointlights? I don't see anything offensive in his message...

     
    Pants

    July 11, 2001, 04:21 AM

    Well, I did notice the light thing but I dont think its that noticeable really. We do look for these things because were used to them.

    Great work.

    Not sure about the water specular reflection. Maybe it needs to be sharper?

    Pete

     
    haust

    July 11, 2001, 05:21 AM

    i would like to test the demo but downloading a +6M file at 800 bytes/second is quite hard, don't you think ??
    You should do something about this....

     
    David Olsson

    July 11, 2001, 05:27 AM

    "I can tell a newbie programmer when I see one"

    John will laugh his pants off when he turns up on icq...
    I sure did.... :))))))))

     
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