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Submitted by akbar A., posted on May 14, 2001




Image Description, by akbar A.



the details are over at
http://www.angelfire.com/ab3/nobody/pplRendering.html


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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
 
Evil Bill

May 14, 2001, 04:19 PM

Haha! First post!
Looks pretty funky!

Steve

 
ecko_53

May 14, 2001, 04:23 PM

damn I like it...I dont' know what I like about it, I just think it looks really good. Good job

 
Revolver

May 14, 2001, 05:09 PM

Blah. I don't see what's so great about bumpmapping.

Reading that page was a severe pain in the arse - use some decent punctuation, capitalization and sentence structure please. Then, it would be easier to read; even though there's nothing there worth reading.

 
Lion V

May 14, 2001, 05:21 PM

The actual graphics are okay- a little weird, but okay.
But your page is lame.
I dont want to read an essay on the games industry, I want the actual exact specs on what the demo does.
And, your punctuation, grammar, capitalization and other things of well-written english are terrible.
But the program screens look nice.
~V'lion

 
Richard Szalay

May 14, 2001, 05:22 PM

Akbar, I downloaded the app but it said I need the GL_NV_register_combiners extension. I'm running a GeForce 2 MX, any ideas ?

 
zed zeek

May 14, 2001, 05:50 PM

no geforce so i can't try the demo but gotta say im in agreement with most of what u said. btw wot lack of grammer?

 
stoo

May 14, 2001, 06:19 PM

Just downloaded it - very fast download on my crappy 56k modem.

First, I though your site was fine and had no trouble reading it, although I would add some info about the techniques you used (and the fact its OpenGL + geforce* only - if it is...).
Are you hoping Nintendo might glance a look some time? ;)

The demo itself is cool, per-pixel lighting really makes the model seem far more detailed and is more effective than any bump mapping stuff I have seen.

I'd change the control method though - bit of a nightmare zooming in :).

Cool.

Stoo

 
Buster

May 14, 2001, 06:52 PM

$50,000? Good luck. I won't get out of bed for less than $100K.

 
Mournblade

May 14, 2001, 06:54 PM

I'll send around the ointment for the bedsores then:-)

 
Waramp

May 14, 2001, 06:56 PM

hehehe...you must get *alot* of sleep...and weight gain :)

Waramp.

 
Numero27

May 14, 2001, 07:27 PM

Nice IOTD, gotta love perpixel lighting. If I ever get back to working on that "killer game" each and every programmer seems to have at the back of his mind... I guess I'll eventually get to cross off
"* Artists bitching because their models don't look the same as in their 3D Studio Max renders"

PerPixel effects are still a bit slow to be considered a substitute for good ol' gourad triangles atm though... the current crop of T&L cards still arn't quite slick enough to convince me that a 10k per pixel lit poly scene at 60hz is more visualy appealing than a 50-100k gourad poly scene doing the same Frame rate.


I didn't see myself earning the kind of figure I currently am until I was at least a little bit older (like somewhere between 30 and 40, not 21) I got scalped away from a shakey job in the games industry to go do commercial app development. Wasn't a smart move, career wise, even though the money is soooo much better. Word of advice: FINISH SOMETHING. There's an entire world full of capable programmers who meiander from one project to the next, getting bored or moving on before the damned thing's finished. Enthusiasm is abundant, Competence you can find in a book, but "the great jobs", are there for the handful with both the talent, and raw self-drive to finish off a project after the initial glitz is gone. A finished project with a big [Job Well Done] stamp on it, is alot more tangible to your next NEXT potential hirer than a resume full of half-arsed or half-finished projects.


Gee I get grumpy when I don't sleep - Im 50/50 deciding I don't even want to post this now :)

 
goltrpoat

May 14, 2001, 07:39 PM

Didn't you just post that exact same thing not too long ago?

-goltrpoat

 
Timothy Barnes

May 14, 2001, 09:00 PM

On a completely related topic, why were you able to capture the mouse!?

 
akbar A.

May 14, 2001, 09:55 PM

>Didn't you just post that exact same thing not too long ago
nope.

btw.
if you don't like reading what i wrote about the game industry and stuff..
you don't _have_ to read it.
i actually get quite a lot of feedback about mythoughts, from industry veterans, people in general, and there thoughts on what i say..
usually it's good feed back except for the grammar...
but i really could care less about grammar..


>Akbar, I downloaded the app but it said I need the >GL_NV_register_combiners extension. I'm running a GeForce 2 MX, any
>ideas ?

umm, i dunno. i downloaded it over at my friends place..
and he has a geforce2mx.. and it worked fine..
nv_register_combiner is a standard extension on nvidia series 1X+ cards..

about what's so special about per pixel shading?
your shading at a pixel level.
i' don't know about you..
but john told me that with the doom engine it's going to be a bigger leap then doom to quake1..
and why?
cause of the fact we are shading at the pixel level.


a lot of people are gocking the doom engine.. but they don't realize that a lot of games are doing the "same thing"..
the artists at id are amazing though..

i had a discussion with john and he told me that it took the artists a while to get to handle on drawing up the bump maps...

and..
thanks for the info drop Numero27.

write now i'm working on a 2d fighting game..

and lionV..
>I want the actual exact specs on what the demo does.
umm. apparently you _didnt_ read the page..
cause i explain what is going on.

and i'm not some person getting paid to write this stuff, and this ain't no tutorial.. if you don't like it to bad.
i didn't make it for you.

sorry about the bad camera..
i really could care less about that camera in that testbed..


laterz,
-akbar A.

;vertexabuse.cjb.net

 
akbar A.

May 14, 2001, 09:59 PM

yeah...
if you want to see teh wireframe..
just hit c to pop off camera mode..
and hit w

go ahead and muckw tih the fileformat..
way easy...
and the obj format..
a lot of programs export that..

laterz.

 
akbar A.

May 14, 2001, 10:16 PM

i used snag it.

 
asdf

May 14, 2001, 10:37 PM

Well said Akbar. Keep on keeping on. Fu*% those whiners.

 
Mournblade

May 14, 2001, 10:40 PM

> and i'm not some person getting paid to write this stuff, and this
> ain't no tutorial.. if you don't like it to bad.
>
> i didn't make it for you.

Hmmm, you entered it in as a IOTD so your attitude to peoples responses has to be questioned.

 
Hikey

May 14, 2001, 10:57 PM

wow, it seems that being unfriendly to each other becomes more and more the subject that attracts the most people. on the last past iotd's the actual feedback and comments were more related to replying to stupid comments by being mean or stupid again. as for your project it looks nice on the pic but i couldn't test it with my poor voodoo, is there no way to make it compatible ? are you not going to provide the sources ?
last word :
>and i'm not some person getting paid to write this stuff, and this ain't no tutorial.. if you don't like it to bad.
why are you posting it in here if not for us to read and try your stuff ? why are you being agressive when the feedback was sensible and shared by several people, which could mean that it's not flaming but maybe a real problem on your web page ?
this site is meant to help one another so what is the point in posting a comment that says : i don't care what you think, it was not meant for you to appreciate.

 
RyseFtk

May 15, 2001, 04:22 AM

I think the unlit areas in the shots do have a wrong color. The light does not seem to have a light but a shadow color. The yellow light, I assume that as you use colored dots to represent lightsource location that the color is supposed to be the light color, does not light the object yellow but has yellow shadows. Same with the red light.
I'm am not sure but you might have a problem with a flip along the Y axis?

 
Raspberry

May 15, 2001, 05:29 AM

I think you added a zero there by mistake ( 10k )

 
Siigron

May 15, 2001, 06:40 AM

"so, in closing, i'm switching over to d3d, because
a.) ms is actually updating there code base
b.) ms controls opengl wheters sgi/arb wants to admit it or not
c.) sgi has made me loose tons of money, i bought shares at 8 i think, sold at 4 or something.
d.) ms is making the xbox as well, so this will give them a better insight on how to update the next generation api,
with all the developer feedback/ihv's...
e.) i know some of the guys on the dx team, and i might end up moving to seattle, so it's nice to have something
to talk about.. ;) but tehre are some nvidia gl guys in austin, and i already know gl ;)
f.) D3D has WON."

hehehe, for a while i almost took your site seriously. until i read this :D

 
Alex Herz

May 15, 2001, 07:46 AM

just a little off topic quest...

yet we have per texel lighting..not per pixel..what gives us either a huge tex mem amount used by high res surface describing tex(used for lightcalcs)..or with low res ones it looks shit..

it would be cool to have something like LOD texture for PPL stuff..

you specify one highres tex to be used..and the GPU calcs the lighting realy per pixel(interpolated) for each triangle rendered after U set the tex (if the tria is worth..to small/far off ones/with too sharp angle to cam don't need)..the card could then also do the tangent space stuff based on trias normal etc..

for PPL Tex alignment you could specify some hints..
and if you specify a tex containing more than normals
(maybe one with normal,reflection,refract,etc) and a hw implementation of a good and realistic lighting calc it should be fast and cool..
but I guess you can do that yourself on a gf3 with some pixelshaders??

Alex

 
Morphing

May 15, 2001, 08:35 AM

Hey all,
Warning: This post is a little off topic, others can ignore it.
Dude(Akbar), your web-site freaked me out. As a fellow who follows the same religion as you, I was shocked. At one point you say be truthful and that you hate liars and in the second 'about' page, you talk about manipulation, and about lieing the best?!?!? To the best of my knowledge our religion does not allow blackmail. So you are a hypocrite and people like you really give the rest of us (Muslims) a bad name. Well, I know YOU DON'T CARE and blah blah blah. But that was my $.02.
-Altaf

 
flure

May 15, 2001, 12:33 PM

why didn't you email him instead of flaming here about religion where this site is about coding ???

well i know some general principles that apply to most of the religions, but at least one seems to always be forgotten by everybody : it is called tolerance ...

 
akbar A.

May 15, 2001, 02:23 PM

>why are you being agressive when the feedback was sensible and
>shared by several people, which could mean that it's not flaming but
>maybe a real problem on your web page ?

nah..
it's not that..
like dirypunk asked me how i did my atteunation and i wrote an entire paragraph just to him on how i did it.
i understand just asking a question,
"do you mind if you tell me how you did the attenuation".

like how dirtypunk said..

but that guy is like...
"I expect to see full knowledge of all the stuff about this"...
well..
i could care less...

i hope you understand, and i'm sure if you wrote something and some guy was like saying, why didn't you tell me everything about how you did this..

well then i think you'd understand.


 
akbar A.

May 15, 2001, 02:24 PM

with the shadow volumes in..
you won't see that color..

 
akbar A.

May 15, 2001, 02:34 PM

hey dude.
i konw some stuff about sgi's situation since i owned some shares of this..
and used to get there updates to there share holdesr, and phone calls to attend there stock holders meetings, etc..

>a.) ms is actually updating there code base
I'm just curiuos, but where did you recieve this information?
check the OpenGL-Advocay list to see more of where i'm coming from..
if it was going to be updated it... MS would have done it a long time ago.
the code is already written you know. OpenGL _CAN_ have better texture management but we can't since that would recquire changes in the kernel (if you don't know what i'm talking about just ask)..

on the advocay list.. look for threads by micheal gold, jon leech, philip taylor, tony cox, allen akin and me.

>b.) ms controls opengl wheters sgi/arb wants to admit it or not
OpenGL has an extension method ... true..
BUT, once everyone agrees on the extension method everyone is happy.
But, this method takes very long to actually implement across all ihv's. and it's really hard to even get ihv's to talk to each other..
since there always in court.

>c.) sgi has made me loose tons of money, i bought shares at 8 i
>think, sold at 4 or something.
yeah. 1 day somebody or group dropped 11 million shares on the market at once.
you can see the traffic shoot up that day.


>d.) ms is making the xbox as well, so this will give them a better
>insight on how to update the next generation api,
>with all the developer feedback/ihv's...
you know what teh word on the street is..
XBOX will be capable of the bessst graphics on the console market.
and ms is providings tons of sdk examples to ease development.
(i'm anti ms btw).


>e.) i know some of the guys on the dx team, and i might end up
>moving to seattle, so it's nice to have something >
>to talk about.. ;) but tehre are some nvidia gl guys in austin, and
>i already know gl ;)
it's ironic at big companies..
people are always moving through groups.
heh

>f.) D3D has WON.
and your going to tell me it hasn't WON?
OpenGL was a thread to ms's mopoplari
blah.
allen akin wrote a thread about how d3d has "won" a long time ago when it comes to games and windows...


>hehehe, for a while i almost took your site seriously. until i read
>this :D

:)

 
akbar A.

May 15, 2001, 02:39 PM

>talk about manipulation, and about lieing the best?!?!?

yeah.
pretty much

>To the best of my knowledge our religion does not allow blackmail

umm.
blackmail is a form of getting a competive advantage on some other guys wrong doing..
i consider wrong doing of a man having an affair with another women.

in islam, if they are convincted and *3 witness testify that they say the 2 people fucking.
they are supposed to be stoned bro.


*there's more then just this number..

>So you are a hypocrite and people like you really give the rest of
>us (Muslims) a bad name.
umm right.
maybe you should check out this section bro.
and lots of people goto it as well.

www.angelfire.com/ab3/nobody/islam.html

 
akbar A.

May 15, 2001, 02:42 PM

yes dude very true..


and like about that stoning thing..

if a person says that they saw 2 people fucking..
and they can't get like 3 or 4 other people to witness that they say it..

that person that had a loud mouth..
he or she gets a whiping..

so it is very, very, very rare that this ever happens.
unless like the people are FUCKING (penetration) in the street.

so this never happens at all.

 
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