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Submitted by William Garrison, posted on January 11, 2001




Image Description, by William Garrison



This is a capture from "Node" a demo created by myself and "Tronster" (http://www.tronster.com), then submitted to the COMA2 demo competition. (http://www.crosswinds.net/~coma2/indexe.htm)

This shot is part of the ending scene and was generated using my GeoGL library, which is a simple library for drawing and managing objects in 3D space. The image in the corner is slightly later in the demo, and is the only use I've ever had for 1D textures. :) The source code for GeoGL and to our demo are available at http://www.mobydisk.com/mobyware/geogl.html

You can see the other entries to COMA2 at ftp://ftp.scene.org/pub/parties/2000/coma00


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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
 
mastagen

January 11, 2001, 07:03 PM

cool, I like the shot not for technical reasons...

I think everybody just started with somewhat and improved his abilities. I started with text-adventures go on to graphics and blah blah....

But with every day you get more experienced. And after years you still recognized that you're doing things you only dreamed of...
Yes, and when it's your passion, your life to code and to improve your abilities, you'll get very experienced...

Yes and this screenshot is a finished product and I find it really hard to finish something, even it was sooooo small, it's definitly hard and I want to show my respects to William Garrison...

Congratulation you got an entry, maybe you'll win next time!!!

P.S.: sorry for the very bad english

 
Alex Taylor

January 11, 2001, 07:11 PM

You can use 1D textures for realtime cartoon rendering. The texture is usually white most of the way through with a dark spike at the end. The texture co-ordinates are then generated to place the dark spike at vertices whose normals are perpendicular to the view. This gives a nice cartoony dark edge

 
Endymio

January 11, 2001, 07:27 PM

Well even if the demo would have been a geForce only, which it was not, why would it be such a bad thing? If a demo was made using some advanced techniques like dynamic shadows with methods that need for example register combiners and therefore needs a geForce, why should it matter to you? If youre worried that you need to update your card, well thats just the way it is now. The 3D card market hasn't stabilized yet and as long as professional software developers support a little bit older cards there is no reason to get upset.

Personally I'm going to be supporting just the cards I feel like while developing my own engine and when I get my own geForce class card it will probably mean that some older cards won't be supported anymore. If I had the time and money to fully support all available cards that are reasonable there wouldn't be a problem, but since I'm doing this for mostly myself some compromises must be made.

 
Revolver

January 11, 2001, 07:43 PM

Heh. Looks like YOU need to calm down. ;-)

If it WAS GeForce only, than presumably new/current cards like Voodoo 5000's and Radeons wouldn't be supported, right? So it is an issue, in some respects - but then if you don't care that alot of people wont see your demo, than making the demo at all is silly.

 
Endymio

January 11, 2001, 07:50 PM

Just a little comment about the demo, that I forgot in the previous post. As such there wasn't anything really wrong about it. There were nice design touches allover the demo and it wasn't really badly coded one either.

However there is one thing that would make the demo work a lot better in my opinion and it is the camera movement. It really felt like there wasn't anyone directing the demo, just some random flying through scenes. Especially in the end scene where you were left watching the empy case while the camera turned. You could show so much more in shorter time with a little bit creative use of even a couple of cameras and since it's really easy to do, why wouldn't you?

Otherwise it was a nice little demo, just 3M and thats low these days:)

 
Endymio

January 11, 2001, 08:03 PM

Well I really didn't mean to insult anyone, but to raise the question about does it really matter if a demo ie not an application doesn't support all the current cards. The reason is that since most of us here code alone or maybe with a small group of people, without the possibility to work fulltime with our project then there must be some cuts made in the engine. And sometimes this means that you can't code multiple rendering paths depending on available extensions if you use openGL.

Another thing that came to my mind about geForce only demos, is that sometimes you may wan't to release something of a technology demo even if it's targeted to only selected part of the population. If you are working on a game it usually takes quite a long time to finish it, a year is not very long time in game development these days, so you usually wan't to target from the beginning the high end part of current video cards. And usually when you are ready to release something that targets the larger part of the general public the video card standard has raisen so that last years high end cards are now common consumer cards.

And yes the demo does run with older cards, since I just watched it with my trusty old TNT2 M64, sure wish sometimes that I would have a geForce myself too:)

 
Dean Harding

January 11, 2001, 08:14 PM

I remember the days when everything was voodoo only, it's about time we were able to get our own back :)

BTW, I haven't downloaded the demo yet (at uni on a unix box) so I can't say much about it...

 
Moby Disk

January 11, 2001, 08:17 PM

The motherboard fly-through needed to be shorter. Same with Tronster's scene with the objects rotating around each other. We filled it to fit the 3 minute song, but we needed one more effect to take time away from those slowdown spots. I think the fly-by the wall would have been better if I had more time (and/or art skill) to beef up the sides of the case. And being faster it might feel more dramatic when you make that turn.

 
Primey

January 11, 2001, 08:27 PM

HIGH~

you flame guy people meanies should visit #flipcode on irc, then we could all grab a bag of pop corn, and watch you all sort out your differences, call each other "poo heads" and "wee brains". Then we all go home to bed.


 
Spanky

January 11, 2001, 08:31 PM

Hehe, thats kinda funny :) I would actualy stay for that conversation... nothing like coders calling eachother poo heads. I can't remember how longs its been since I seen a good, real-time, coder flame war.

Spanky

PS - Very nice image, I can't download the demo as I am at work but looks cool.

 
Primey

January 11, 2001, 08:43 PM

Hey mr Garrison, I love your demo, mmmkay.. please pound my butt-ocks

*giggles*

couldnt resist :)

 
onno

January 11, 2001, 11:11 PM

My middle finger hurts from all the wheel scrolling. Lol. The screenshot is fine!

 
DooMWiz

January 11, 2001, 11:37 PM

Good point...if programmers only coded for the worst configurations out there, we'd still be using punchcards and plotter output or something similar. =]

 
bgl

January 12, 2001, 12:32 AM

I AM SURROUNDED BY FOOLS!

Oh, wait, wrong persona. Nevermind.

 
Wayne Marsh

January 12, 2001, 01:16 AM

Toot toot!
All aboard the bitchy-land express!

Please ensure your seats are in the full and upright position. In the even of a flame war, please sharpen your claws, and proceed to scratch your enemy's eyes out. Do no hesitate to act like a child under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.


Should good-karma not be acheived, all offenders will be forced to change their name to Beatrice and become cleaning ladies.

 
Wayne Marsh

January 12, 2001, 01:20 AM

Whoops, I left the constructive questions out of that question..


..1d textures - I'm guessing that means the texture is just 1 pixel high, and 32(or whatever) pixels wide? I'm having trouble getting my head round it, I hope somebody can explain :-)

 
Kail

January 12, 2001, 01:28 AM

The white part in the upper right picture is a single quad with a 1d texture that looks like: *********** ** **********. When it's tiled, it looks like 3 quads.

So yeah, its 1xWhatever.

I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like he did(and also how I would do it).

-Kail

 
Jukka Liimatta

January 12, 2001, 02:38 AM

Mr. MC BAXTON said: "i dont care".

Mr Baxton! If you do not care, then do not post here - simple as that.


cheers.

 
DooMWiz

January 12, 2001, 03:14 AM

Are you sure that's all you call people? I think not! =P

 
Pet

January 12, 2001, 03:17 AM

Hmm, this demo wins a competition ? Damn, I'll start posting demos to competitions then... :)

Well, as I can see, in the big picture, the light is comming from... below the big coma2 chip with a triangle on it. The engine as I see use no shadows not at leas some simple light oclusion... or are disabled in that picture. It is very unrealistic. Also that mipmaping problem is vrey out of place. Overall, regarding this picture, there are lots of things to work on.

 
Mace

January 12, 2001, 03:50 AM

Tim
"Can someone please kick the account of this damn MC BAXTON guy ? This is not the place for people like him, I bet he can't even code... "

No i dont think he can code either.
And i also think he“s a kid, due to his immature comments.

 
tcs

January 12, 2001, 05:02 AM

I just think that if he is not interested in coding and the demos of others, then this is not the place for him ;-)

To this GeForce only issue:

Demos are art. An do you really think that any artists would like to be limited because of crappy 256x256 textures, crappy 16 bit and crappy OpenGL drivers ?

Tim

 
Mathieu 'POĻ' HENRI

January 12, 2001, 05:13 AM

hum! imho MC BAXTON is not wrong here.
I entirelly agree with him when he says that this iotd sucks (difference of texture details, poor modelisation and textures)
this doesn't mean that WILLIAM GARRISON sucks or is a poor coder,far from it but it means that he's a (very) bad designer

hope none will missinterpret my words

Cheers

 
Pet

January 12, 2001, 05:27 AM

Come on tcs. Do you think that for what this demo does, it needs a GForce ? I don't think so... All of this stuff can be done on a less advanced card. And I don't think that only on a GForce you can use bigger textures, 32 bit modes etc... Maybe some very cool demos needs a powerfull accelerator.. but not this one :)

 
Khrob

January 12, 2001, 06:15 AM

I like it. and that bit on the chip in the top right corner looks shit-hot.

since people seem to have a problem with the board textures, maybe someone would be kind enough to open their case, rip out all their cards, take a shot and email it to him?

(or post it as an IOTD - 'I dont like the dust over near the ram slots,' 'you didn't have enough light on the case when you took the shot, 'your focal length was incorrect,' 'why are you asing an abit? what have you got against asus motherboards?')

The possibilities are endless...

 
Jonas Risbrandt

January 12, 2001, 06:29 AM

Kurt are absolutely right. I am one of the people who almost never post in the forums, but I read them with great interest. Or more like I _used_ to read them with interest. There where a time when you could get some realy great tips and ideas from the IOTD. Nowdays there seem to be nothing but childish rubbish. It's a pitty. I Hope this will change into how it used to be.

 
AticAtac

January 12, 2001, 06:32 AM

Great screenshot !!!

 
Cybok^Guideline

January 12, 2001, 06:35 AM

BustaX->how about a feature for these forums where we can ignore message trees started by specific people?

Man! I love you! :) _THAT_ is what I need!
Kurt-> Do you read this? No, wait, I'll mail it to you!

superb idea! perfect! the best since,..
while..since the forum was relaxed :(
think about, ignoring all those ppl who are just here to anoy others!
being my own moderator!
yes!

 
Manuel Astudillo

January 12, 2001, 06:39 AM


Well, after reading all thouse 84 messages I have come to a conclussion. All the discussion about that MC BAXTON was totally innecessary. I mean, of course the comment he did was negative, and all that crap, but hey, you have feeded him like hell. I mean, if you think he is unmature and you dont agree with him, etc. why do you keep a discussion with him?

At the end I have to agree with MC BAXTON, this is "pure nonsense". ( a pity that he didnt put this sentence at the end of the thread instead of at the begining).

Manuel Astudillo.

 
Jonas Risbrandt

January 12, 2001, 07:08 AM

How about this?:
Everybody tries to be a little more mature! And maybe this forum could be like it used to be, ie. a place for people to show some of there work and a place for other people to give some _constructive_ critisizm, tips and ideas.

I used to learn a lot by checking this forum out. Now I learn nothig. I only get tired of reading through 100 Megs of useles posts, just to find a few good ones.

Please stop now.

 
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