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Submitted by Michael Black, posted on October 31, 2000

Image Description, by Michael Black

Here is a screen shot from our latest game, Sub Hunter. It requires DirectX 7.0a.

The goal in Sub Hunter is simple: sink wave after wave of the enemy subs before they sink you. Along the way, grab the various power-ups for secret powers and big scores!

For more information:

-Michael Black
Torn Space

Image of the Day Gallery


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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.

October 31, 2000, 02:27 AM

Now that takes me back!

Nice work... do I need a 3d accelerator for it? (kidding!)

now to try out the gameplay! (the dreaded 'g' word!)

Brian Deuel

October 31, 2000, 02:35 AM

Great game!! Reminds me of the great '70s games Destroyer (Atari), Deep Scan and Depth Charge (Sega/Gremlin). Glad to see someone else is into the classics (when gameplay MATTERED, and not pretty pictures). Keep up the great work (hmm... I should get back to work on my "vector" game :)!

Brian Deuel


October 31, 2000, 02:44 AM

Gameplay over Graphics :)


October 31, 2000, 02:51 AM

deja-vu (or how it's called?)

days ago - a friend of mine - told me that he done
SEA STRIKE game for his company - - for his company Lucky Chicken - [url][/url] - it's shock flashed and it's cool

One of my favourite games for Apple ][ (mine was Apple ][/e)
is SEA FOX (along with SKY FOX) - so this is it, ten years
later i'm looking at the same thing...

classic games are returning,
same happens in music - ROCK is back!
(and SKA too!)


October 31, 2000, 02:52 AM

So I'm again with illegal UBB syntax - [url] [/url] doesn't work... gaaaaa

Brian Deuel

October 31, 2000, 03:00 AM

Thanks for the links, Malkia! Did you know that Ed Hobbs coded Sea Fox in AppleSOFT BASIC? Pretty amazing....


October 31, 2000, 04:08 AM

1) Capability for poster/moderator to edit old posts.
2) More detailed info on supported tags



October 31, 2000, 04:24 AM

saw that classicgaming had skyfox... lol, cool gfx :)

Kurt Miller

October 31, 2000, 04:46 AM

1) Capability for poster/moderator to edit old posts.
2) More detailed info on supported tags

1) This won't be coming anytime soon. I considered it for a while, but decided against it. You can (and are encouraged to) preview your messages before posting. That should eliminate any formatting errors. And if you forgot to mention something in a message, you can always post another. I dont like the idea of editing messages on a threaded forum.

2) HTML is enabled, so any HTML guide on the web will explain what tags can be used.

3) Perhaps soon... haven't had time just yet...

Thanks for the suggestions.

Jaap Suter

October 31, 2000, 04:59 AM


where did you get that Sig from? I recognize some of that stuff :).
Did you make it up yourself?


Jaap Suter


October 31, 2000, 05:55 AM

Very nice!

I have once tried to make such a game in QBasic when I was 12
I have the same kind of game on my TI-83p calculator which is called SubHunt. A TI83 has a 6 MHz Z80 cpu !!!
What are the requirements for this game??

James Matthews

October 31, 2000, 07:12 AM

About the TI-83+: that is the same processor that the Nintendo Gameboy uses, tis amazing what you can do with some decent assembly coding :) - I write documentation for TI on assembly programming on the TI-83+...and some the examples I've seen people come up with is pretty crazy. Anyway, this is OT :)


October 31, 2000, 07:18 AM

hey, now that's oldskool! I like it, it remembers me of Scubadive for the C64, the days we used musictapes to backup 5.1/4-disks,..hehe


October 31, 2000, 08:27 AM

Hey, how many points did you others get? I got about 16800 :-)
That's bad? was the first time I played ;-)


October 31, 2000, 09:15 AM

Kewl game.
I liked your intro, what was the music there? Did you compose it? Is it legal?

The only thing I would strongly suggest is that you add some parallaxing to the ocean floor, this gives the illusion of smoother movement and realism (opinion).

Very nice, I'm not a classic game fan, but I do love to see a finished product!


October 31, 2000, 11:40 AM

Game intro is cool - it's done very good.

I've done 4680 points - tried 4 or 5 games
(not so good - but i'll try it again).

Did you really mind doing money with shareware
games? How it's selling right now? I have some
free time, and I can think of doing some old
classing games.

Another things is - if i want to make some game,
how can I be sure that it's idea or design is
not currently copyrighted or patented...
Any ideas? I know bout the site,
but all written patents there are using law
language, and sometimes the way you know some
of the things is not described there (I'm not
sure - but I was searching for VoxelSpace NovaLogic
engine, and it was not described there as Voxel Space)


October 31, 2000, 01:02 PM

Thanks to all! Yes, the music is "legal" as are all the sound effects. The intro song is from the Golgotha (sp?) project and most of the other sound effects and music are from Sound-Ideas.

The lame graphics are all me, baby! :)

When I was testing the game, I was able to get 130,490. The trick is to get the x2, x3, x4, x5 score multipliers!


October 31, 2000, 01:28 PM

No, I can't claim that I did.

I was surfing a page a LOOONG time ago (forget which one), when I saw someone who had posted the quote on their page. They credited it to K10K ( After tedious searching, I found that it was indeed Toke Nygaard of K10K who used the phrase first. :-)

Since I've never seen it anyone else use it, I've sort of adopted it (with credit of course. :-P).


October 31, 2000, 03:50 PM

Right on, kool game. Love the classics too. Someone said about paralax to add to the sea effect, but there's a lot to be said about simplicity. FFI rocks and the grafics aren't exactly state of the art, even when it first came out. Good job on the gfx too, I was suprised you said about Golgatha, I didn't think anyone even remembered that, (or had the patience to download the packages rather), but that's probably just me. Good job though, any plans for your next game?


October 31, 2000, 05:06 PM

Cool game! It's nice to see someone who values gameplay these days.. keep the good work up!



October 31, 2000, 06:15 PM

Copyrights cannot apply to concepts or ideas. The same is true of patents. Artwork is most likely copyrighted, level designs even may be (at least in old games in which the level design WAS the artwork, I'm thinking like Pacman where the level was just one big piece of "artwork" you navigated in.

So code away, you can make a ripoff of any game you like. The only thing you might want to watch out for is trademarks, finding a name for your game might be difficult with trademarks. But don't worry, if a name is trademarked doesn't mean you can't use it. It has to specifically be trademarked for the purpose of being used as a name for a piece of software. Trademarks have to have in their application a list of areas to which the trademarks will apply. Some companies make their trademarks cover everything under the sun, others only reserve it for one use... I don't know if this is a money issue or not. For instance, you could create a line of computers and call them Linux computers. You could make a car and call it the Linux. Linux is only trademarked by Linus Torvalds for the name of an operating system. You could even call your game Linux since it doesn't apply to games, only operating systems. Oh, but you can't name a detergent Linux, some company in another country already trademarked that...

Oh, just a couple more factoids: Patents are for production processes and exact designs. For instance, the design of rollerblades. It is very, very specific. It does not rule out rollerskates or anything similar to rollerblades, only inline blades in particular. Algorithms can be patented if they are "non-obvious" and not prior art (no one has done them before). If you happen upon using such a patented idea by developing it yourself, either no one will find out or I'm sure the companies would go easy on you (and probably hire you), but if you just go and rip off proprietary information you can get burned.

Copyrights are fun, most people don't know all that much about them. Everything you write is copyrighted. Instantly. This post that I am writing right now is copyrighted. You don't have to put a copyright notice on your work, it is automatically copyrighted. If, however, you wish to sue someone for infringing on your copyright you must register it with the Library of Congress. You can do this the day before you actually walk into court if you want. Copyrights are pretty straightforward, they cover lyrics, written word, etc. There are some things they can't apply to (I think you can't copyright a musical score but I may be wrong).

If you just sit down, think of a game you thought was cool, maybe think about how to improve it a bit, and get coding, you won't have to worry about ANY of this stuff. Plus, unless you completely give up all rights to your work (ala the LGPL or similar license), its copyrighted, so if you see some slimeball selling it on a CD at a computer show you can rain down fire and brimstone on him ;)


October 31, 2000, 06:27 PM

Good to see a "retro" peice of work in these 3D-Centric times!

Speaking of which, i dug up my old multi-screen "Nintendo Donkey Kong II", and plugged some batteries in. That thing hadn't lived for 15 years of so, and it's still as fun to play! Everyone round the office kept picking it up, saying "Woah, i remember these!". Then they all started to bring their old ones in. We had "Octopus", and that fire fighter one with the crazy bouncing babies...ah, fashion is for now, but style is forever...

Who wants to walk around a 3D room, just to admire the level designers lovely textures? Too many 3D games waste space, and look weak. The game play premise always seems to be "but hey, it's in 3D!..." - boring. I much prefer classic Street Fighter to todays Techen Tag. So there ;p

Kurt Miller

October 31, 2000, 06:50 PM

Soul Calibur beats the crap out of Street Fighter imho, and its totally 3D :). I've seen plenty of 2D games that "waste space, and look weak". I don't think "good game play" really has anything to do with 2D or 3D neccesarily. I'm a big fan of classic games (old console games especially), but I also thoroughly enjoy many modern 3D games. Can't say I've played Tekken Tag though :p

Jaap Suter

October 31, 2000, 07:38 PM

It's awesome man. I copy pasted it in a picture on my desktop.


and k10k too ofcourse! :)

Jaap Suter

Thierry Tremblay

October 31, 2000, 08:45 PM

I beleive your statements on trademarks to be wrong or not complete. I know for a fact that "Wrangler" is used by Jeep for their small 4x4 vehicule and for a brand of "jeans" by a company in Canada. Because of this, Chrysler (Jeep) is not allowed to sell their vehicule under the name of "Wrangler" in Canada. It is instead called "TJ" and older models were known as "YJ" and "CJ".

The reason Jeep had to this this is precisely because someone else was using the trademark "Wrangler" for something else which as nothing to do with vehicules, ie: pants



October 31, 2000, 09:01 PM

Do you guys remember the original arcade game that this (and the Apple/PC versions) came from? Had the periscope in it and everything.

Now *that* is old school :)


October 31, 2000, 10:09 PM

Haven't you been paying any attention? Yeah, what you say is technically true, but that won't stop some slimy company like, let's say, Hasbro (boycott anyone?) from filing suit against you for Copyright infringment. While they wouldn't stand a chance in court, _you_ couldn't possibly afford to meet them there! Don't believe me? Check out:


Mark Friedenbach

October 31, 2000, 11:46 PM

I beleive your statements on trademarks to be wrong or not complete

Yep, it's not complete. I believe he was specifically talking about American copyright and trademark laws. The example you gave above, however, delt with international law (or lack there of). I could be wrong though..

Rob Nall

November 01, 2000, 12:11 AM

Cool Game - I've had lots of fun with it!

Brian Deuel

November 02, 2000, 01:11 PM

Yep.. the game was Sea Wolf. Many great memories from playing that game (I was a video game freak even before the huge rush of the 80s fad). Still looking to buy one if I even come across one :)

Brian Deuel

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