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Submitted by Nathan d'Obrenan, posted on October 06, 2000




Image Description, by Nathan d'Obrenan



Here is a shot of Ectosaver distorting your flipcode webpage. The tech in Ectosaver will be the same kind of water effect you'll see in our up and coming game, Everglade Rush. The base technique Ectosaver uses is a spring system to calculate the vertices, and a refration technique for the actual texture coordinates.

We also put in DOT-3 bumpmapping for nVidia's geForce cards... in this case were bumpmapping the flipcode webpage. If you notice, theres a small amount of dithering going on with the bumpmap, but thats due to the fact that the light is so close to the mesh.

Check out the demo @ http://www.firetoads.com/ectosaver.htm


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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
 
DragonWorx

October 06, 2000, 02:33 AM

bloody cool!

I like water effects. Do you have any pointers for springs? I'm trying to implement 2D blobs with sprite vertices, but i'm kinda making it up as i go. Some online references would be very handy, as i'm still thinking through the spring workings. Specifically, making springs react to momentum...?

Thanks, the FX looks sweet...

 
Khrob

October 06, 2000, 03:43 AM

Very nice!

It's so good to have all these cool shots going up with such a variation in themes - really keeps you going at half past three and you know you've got a maths lecture in a few hours, but you just keep on with that next little routine to make it all that much cooler!

Good luck with the game guys

 
Phil Carlisle

October 06, 2000, 05:25 AM

Hehhee.. reminds me of wave racers frontend..

I still dont know how to do dot3 in OGL.. should look into that.. ;)

Nice work tho.

Btw: Dragon, the best reference Ive seen for springmass and dampers is to get hold of a demo by Iguana called HeartQuake. They released the sourcecode to the "water" part of that demo..
that was pretty much the first reference to springs I'd ever seen, and looks VERY pretty :) (and funny enough, JCAB (one of the iguana guys) actually visits this site too! :)) Hi JCAB!

Phil.

 
Fid

October 06, 2000, 09:31 AM

Some good info on springs and mass can be found on
'The good-looking textured light-sourced bouncy fun smart and stretchy page' ( along with lots of other good things )
http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/
Go to Models and check out the Strings and Cloth tutorials
Brad

 
The Wolf

October 06, 2000, 10:20 AM

very nice effects, would love to see a demo of the game :)

 
Nathand

October 06, 2000, 02:26 PM

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

Dragon: Springs are an excellent way of calculating vertices. They enable you to really simulate a lot of things,
and they really extend nicely todifferent optimizations techniques. Cloth effects, water, and even hair can all be
simulated through setting up a spring system. The best reference I can give which helped me the most, would
be Jeff Lander, @ http://www.darwin3d.com. He also has an excellent water demo, which we used to
base some of our water techniques on.

Khrob: Thanks for the encouragement, programming is all about inspiration and hard work... you really do
need them both. What kind of math are you teaching? Math rules. As my old math teacher said, "Math is
God's way of representing life". That said, programming IS math.

Everglade Rush is going well, we just received funding (like a month or two ago), so now we can _really_ concentrate
on making it good with some pimpin artwork (we were just two coders before :). Were entered in the IGF in
SanJose this year, so hopefully it makes the cut. Either way were making it amazing and hopefully a publisher
notices us :) Public demo is coming out in December, so look out for it!

-Nathan d'Obrenan
http://www.firetoads.com

 
Mike W

October 06, 2000, 09:32 PM


I was wondering something about using that water effect in 3d. Of course, I never got around to doing it, and have only been thinking about water (in the back of my mind). Anyway, it looks really cool, I'm going to have to check out the demo ;), but won't be able to see the bump-mapping... By the way, anybody who hasn't checked out that bouncy everything page already should _really_ check it out... it has lots of cool stuff... just like Jeff Landers. Both great sites, and I really recommend them... whatever that means. Don'te have much else to say until I check out the demo!

 
Mike W

October 06, 2000, 09:42 PM


That's not at all what I had in mind. I was expecting just a small demo, bot a full-blown customizable cool screen-saver. You say that you're using springs for that... huh? I was thinking more like doing the water effect in 2D (kind of) and rendering those points as an even height map. Is this what you meant, or am I thinking something else? When you get a demo of your game out, I'd love to see it, until then I'll have to look at this, or do something else. I'm so tired right now...

Mike Weber

 
Oscar Rydberg

October 07, 2000, 04:34 AM

The problem with using the "magic water" filter in 2d, and extend it to 3d, is that it's getting tricky to do refraction correctly.

At least in my attempt, it's difficult when You try to iterate texcoords over several textures. (In my pond there'r 4 walls and the floor)

Anyone has any ideas of how to solve this?

Cubic environment mapping maybe, but I still get problems when a triangle refers to two different walls AND the floor.. (I don't want to trace all normal vectors in a 256x256 water array per frame :) )



 
Nathand

October 07, 2000, 02:17 PM

Presently Ectosaver doesn't use cubic maps to do the refraction, nor does it need cubic maps to do refraction
of a scene correctly. nVidia actually presents the best example to simulate refraction through reflection in their
boat demo. They invert the viewport to the base of their scene, capture that image, and use
that captured image as the image which gets refracted. I haven't put that into Everglade Rush yet, but I am
planning on it. Also, by doing it this way, you avoid limiting yourself to any one kind of video card. I've messed
around with stencil buffers, but haven't been impressed by their performance (and image quality), to justify using
them for reflections, shadows, or anything. Stencil == evil.

The thing I'm most excited about however, that ectosaver just touches on is the use of webcams with todays
3d hardware. IT ROCKS!!! There are SO many different possibilities, its totally unbelievable. Ectosaver just
touches on it, Everglade Rush will use a bunch of webcam tech in it, if you haven't looked into it DO because
it is very fun coding.

-Nathan d'Obrenan
www.firetoad.com

 
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