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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
 
DonJuan

May 18, 2005, 03:10 PM

Wazzup fellow game-builders?

I just thought I'd ask what you thought about turn-based games. I think that the purpose of video games is to destroy the need for turns at all, creating a more immersive and fun experience. I guess not *all* turn-based games suck, but most of them piss me off with how slowly they develop. And while some game genres do tend to rely on turns, there's really no contest between the thrill of Counter-Strike and the, uh, "thrill" of Civ 3.

What do you guys think?

 
bignobody

May 18, 2005, 03:56 PM

NetHack. Still exciting after all these years...

 
Victor Widell

May 18, 2005, 04:04 PM

What if "thrill" is not the main goal of the game?

 
Stephan Kaiser

May 18, 2005, 04:10 PM

Civ definitely had its thrills.

 
erkokite

May 18, 2005, 04:23 PM

Oh, but Pokemon begs to differ!

 
DonJuan

May 18, 2005, 04:53 PM

Okay:

1. NetHack was *never* fun, just one of the better half-games out there,
2. "thrill" is the point of any game,
3. discovering gunpowder isn't cool,
4. and Pokemon is a card game.

 
theAntiELVIS

May 18, 2005, 06:49 PM

There's a definite market for turn-based games. There are players who won't play anything else.

Except for such niche games such as 4X strategy, etc., most turn-based games have gone to a hybrid approach, like the Jagged Alliance games that are real-time during movement and turn-based during combat.

There's still life in it. And the ULTIMATE game of all games, chess, is of course turn-based. So is Monopoly. Neither of them is going away any time soon.

 
Vast

May 18, 2005, 08:10 PM

@DonJuan:

U *can not* generalize your opinion as a public view mate. What YOU think, isnt what I think, or what EVERYONE ELSE thinks.

Look at fallout. That game is unbelievably great! Or heroes of might and magic! If you tell me that game isnt thrilling, or fun, then you obviosly have a very narrow view on games. If the game such as civ makes u think, doesnt mean its a bad game.

Try and open ur mind a tid-bit.

Tim

 
DonJuan

May 18, 2005, 08:28 PM

Finally, someone brings up a turn-based *video* game.

I can generalize all I want. Now I'm a little opinionated towards turn-based games, but that's why I wanted to hear what everyone thinks. I personally think that games, from this point onward, should be burned if you have to wait for your opponent to go. Vast, you have some good points. Now I actually forgot Might and Magic, which I liked when I was a kid, but these games are antiquated. Don't tell me you couldn't make Fallout better by taking out the turns; the reasons for its coolness have nothing to do with them.

Turns are for bored-games, not video games! Games from Solitaire to Battleship to Civ aren't real video games, but ports from a bygone era. Am I the only one who has the balls to say it???

 
RAZORUNREAL

May 18, 2005, 11:14 PM

DonJuan wrote: Am I the only one who has the balls to say it???


How exactly does it take any balls to say turn based games suck?

I personally play turn based games when it's not the only thing I'm doing. I might play someone over msn or jippii who doesn't even have a good enough connection to play a better game online while we talk and work on something. You are only thinking of the hardcore market, and at the moment I have too many cool projects to spend much time playing hardcore games, fun as they might be.

 
Jason 'nuvem' Kozak

May 18, 2005, 11:44 PM

DonJuan wrote: Am I the only one who has the balls to say it???
No, just the only one foolish enough.

You don't like turn-based games, good for you. On the other hand, plenty of other people like them just fine. The nice thing about a free market, is as long as those people are around, you can whine all you want but they'll still get their games. If you can't understand why anyone could possibly enjoy turn-based games, do yourself a favour and stick to your 'thrills'.

Personally, while I don't find turn based games as tense as realtime ones, they can certainly be a lot more suspenseful at times, as anyone who's said to themselves, "just one more turn", can attest.

They also offer other benefits, especially when it comes to simultaneous turn-based games, allowing players to play much larger games then they might otherwise. I used to play in 16 player games of Stars!, that would last at a turn a day for months. Combined, the time spent playing the entire game would have taken an entire day at least. How often can you get the same 16 players to commit to even a 4h game?

There's also of course the unlimited thinking time bit, hence turn-based being suited for games that require more than a split-second of thought.


Just because you don't like them does not somehow negate the fact that turn-based is better suited to some types of games, while real-time is better suited to others.


(As an aside, I just recently came across Knights Of Honor, which does good job of bringing the slower pace of turn-based games into realtime... and yet oddly enough, it was more boring... I suppose you can chalk up another point for turn-based... if you don't want to wait, you can always just keep tapping the next turn key :)

 
Marmakoide

May 19, 2005, 01:23 AM

Do you know
* XCOM - Menace Unknow
* XCOM - Terror from the deep
* XCOM - Aftermath

Those games are awesome, and turn-based.

 
Corre

May 19, 2005, 01:35 AM

The outcome of a realtime strategy game is largely determined by who clicks fastest.
The outcome of a turn-based strategy game is determined by who is smartest.

People with trembling index fingers should stick to their Doom-derivatives, and leave the strategy games to REAL men...

 
Mace

May 19, 2005, 02:30 AM

Corre wrote: The outcome of a realtime strategy game is largely determined by who clicks fastest. The outcome of a turn-based strategy game is determined by who is smartest.


Exactly.

And DonJuan, youre being really narrowminded and arrogant.
Personally i enjoy both types every now and then.

 
LastInquisitor

May 19, 2005, 03:14 AM

Corre vs. DonJuan - 10 : 0

 
Corre

May 19, 2005, 03:40 AM

Thank you, thank you :-)

I'll be here all week

 
Dave

May 19, 2005, 03:55 AM

Its easy to think of turn based games that dont suck, heres 3 off the top of my head:

Rome Total War, and the entire series for that matter, Campaign mode. Based on the board game Shogun http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/221

Advance Wars is pretty cool

Worms quite a good game too

 
Sebastian Wagner

May 19, 2005, 04:50 AM

One up for Advance Wars & XCom, talk about thrill!

 
kodapa

May 19, 2005, 07:02 AM

Haha! So I was waiting for this (http://www.civanon.org/main.html) Civilization 4 movie to download and though I would check out what was happening over at flipcode.

 
Chris

May 19, 2005, 07:31 AM

Ascendency was turn-based, IIRC, and I think it was pretty cool.

 
Matt Barnett

May 19, 2005, 08:58 AM

Incubation, loved it.

 
Vast

May 19, 2005, 09:25 AM

lol, im glad someone brought out Worms, hehe i remember spending all of my computer classes in school just playing that game. Ah good old memories.

Fallout is great as it is turnbased (i dont even like tactics because it's not turn based, its not as fun when u turn it on though).

In turn based games u get a chance to stretch ur mind's thought to reach strategical outcomes during.. battle for example. U start thinking logical, and the thril is always present, maybe from being shot in a head from AK-47 (Kalashnikov for my eastern-european mates) or from actually defeating ur adversary in an intense and strategical battle. Both are fun.

"I can generalize all I want" - not as a public opinion u cant. Express ur thoughts, just dont put words in other people's mouth.


Regards,
Tim

P.S. Corre - great derriviation of intended gameplay skills needed in the 2 genres mate!

 
Dr. Necessiter

May 19, 2005, 09:28 AM

When you're in the mood for an apple, eat an apple. When you want an orange, eat an orange.

 
Wernaeh

May 19, 2005, 10:07 AM

Also think about older or disabled people who simply are not able to play any reaction critical game.

My dad for example simply sucks at anything involving speed, but I am still able to play a session Age of Wonders against him, and usually I lose.

Cheers,
- Wernaeh

 
DonJuan

May 19, 2005, 10:42 AM

This is great! I hoped I could get some feedback here, and it's great to hear you guys so vehemently defend your games. Including people telling me I'm all narrow-minded and shit, I think this is what flipcode is all about.

Still, it's not the smarter people who win turn-based games, it's the people who actually take the time to get good at them. I know a lot of morons who kick ass. Just so you know, you're all completely wrong.

 
Corre

May 19, 2005, 11:01 AM

DonJuan wrote: people telling me I'm all narrow-minded


goes without saying in your case..

DonJuan wrote: and shit,

which nobody actually said, but nice of you to realise this anyway :-)

DonJuan wrote: I know a lot of morons

I believe you

DonJuan wrote: you're all completely wrong.


Strangely, being told this by you makes me feel completely right :-)

This thread is FUN :-)

 
DonJuan

May 19, 2005, 11:13 AM

i think speakers of foreign languages shouldn't try picking apart english slang. i also think that four quote boxes for one paragraph is lame (and shit). i think corre should polish his posting skillz. his time is up - next?

 
ServantOfTheCode

May 19, 2005, 11:39 AM

You should all know better then to feed a troll, especially one with an email address like "pimp_imp@hotmail.com". I be he actually likes Civ 3 too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

 
Chris

May 19, 2005, 12:11 PM

1. NetHack was *never* fun, just one of the better half-games out there,


Uh oh, I HAVE to disagree. It's the most thrilling game I know. Just admit you never event got to the Oracle.

 
Wernaeh

May 19, 2005, 12:46 PM

Just out of curiosity, is there a way to get through the entire game without dying and then cheating with save games ? Though I heard it is possible, I tried really, really often, and didn't manage to get anywhere near the end ;)How far did you get ?

I made it to Medusa once without cheating, but did something extremely stupid then (digging down into the Castle level below without a mirror or anything, and the only stair upwards led directly to Medusa... nasty...)

Cheers,
- Wernaeh

 
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