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Archive Notice: This thread is old and no longer active. It is here for reference purposes. This thread was created on an older version of the flipcode forums, before the site closed in 2005. Please keep that in mind as you view this thread, as many of the topics and opinions may be outdated.
 
FrancoisSoft

February 02, 2005, 12:18 PM

Hey people, remember me? I just finished this game called Worm Wars. In this you are a worm who tries to eat other worms before they try to eat you. Tell me what you think of it.

Download it here...

http://www.geocities.com/worm_wars

 
Chris

February 02, 2005, 01:40 PM

I don't like your game to reside in my Windows/System32 folder !
This is exactly the kind of stuff that *deeply* annoys me, and that I will not forget.

$Platform_List{"Windows"} = "move $Executable_Name %windir%\System32";

I'm not going to try it this way. Could you upload an executable ?

 
Rui Martins

February 02, 2005, 02:04 PM

Well, if you check the code, it's very short, or even the HTML docs, I think it isn't worth the time, at least my time.
This is too basic to actually call it a game nowdays.

It's snake clone (litle different on rules) and the display is ascii on the console.

It reminds me of VT100, VT120 VT340 games that came builtin on those terminals, but they had a much better ascii art. I remember playing space invaders in one of those at the Uni.

 
FrancoisSoft

February 03, 2005, 11:27 AM

Ok, I'll put an executable up.

 
FrancoisSoft

February 03, 2005, 11:33 AM

Too basic! Why do you say that and why are you telling people not to play it? If you actually played it you would not think that. Fine, I'll put the executable up right now.

 
Chris

February 03, 2005, 12:30 PM

Oh my, what's that ? It's nice that you're trying to learn C++, but I feel the need to say that this won't actually fascinate anybody. Yes, it's too basic. Please have a look at some of flipcode's IOTDs, and see a difference.

 
Rui Martins

February 03, 2005, 12:53 PM

I mean no disrespect to your work.
The game play can be interesting or even addicting, I won't say it isn't, I haven't tryed it, and I think that it is simple but probably hard to master, which is always a good start for great gameplay.

What I meant is that until you do something with it (graphically), you don't have much chance that anyone will play it, or even compile to play it.

Try to lear Allegro, SDL or something else that provides a simple 2D Graphical interface and then present us a version with that.

I hope you see the difference after doing this exercise.

 
Rui Martins

February 03, 2005, 01:08 PM

When a game ends it says:

"Press RESET to play again."

Never saw this key, but ENTER seems to solve the problem.

Moving the worm only when pressing a key as the bad side effect that if you loose akey press while another worm is chasing you, you lose one or more segments.

These are usability problems, start to learn to deal with these early in your game building education, and you will be a lot better in the end.

I also think the routine that checks the worms eating is wrong, because worms can pass over each other when they go head to head.

It also seems easy to eat another worm, by pushing it vertically to an edge and then reverse while on top of it but before the edge. This might be due to the problem/bug I refered before.

 
FrancoisSoft

February 03, 2005, 09:40 PM



Rui Martins wrote: When a game ends it says: "Press RESET to play again." Never saw this key, but ENTER seems to solve the problem.


It's mentioned in the manual.

Moving the worm only when pressing a key as the bad side effect that if you loose akey press while another worm is chasing you, you lose one or more segments.


The game was designed to be this way. It gives you full control of the worm. It as teaches you to be quick. Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it!

These are usability problems, start to learn to deal with these early in your game building education, and you will be a lot better in the end.


True. The game being built from the source is kind of difficult. For programmers, of course, you'll always need to do this but for the game player I'll provide binaries.

I also think the routine that checks the worms eating is wrong, because worms can pass over each other when they go head to head.


Yes worms can pass over eachother head to head. A worm cannot eat another worm's head. It's too big for the worm to swallow so they pass right over eachother. Worms can only eat the body segments.

It also seems easy to eat another worm, by pushing it vertically to an edge and then reverse while on top of it but before the edge. This might be due to the problem/bug I refered before.


Yep, you didn't make it past the first level... In the first level the worms just run away from you because they're small but be careful because if the worm accidently takes a bite of you it will grow and actually try to eat you. Worms in the next levels hunt you rather than simply run away. I'm currently working on making the worms smarter.

 
Rui Martins

February 04, 2005, 10:09 AM

True. The game being built from the source is kind of difficult. For programmers, of course, you'll always need to do this but for the game player I'll provide binaries.


I think you didn't get the meaning of what I said.
"Playability/Usability", it's only related with how "enjoyable" is your game interface.
People (players) tend to be annoyed if the interface is not what they expect!

Yes worms can pass over eachother head to head. A worm cannot eat another worm's head. It's too big for the worm to swallow so they pass right over eachother. Worms can only eat the body segments.


Thas is very strange! After passing the head of the other worm I can make U turn and brake it near the head.
Also it makes a very confusing output, expecially for a textual representation.

Yep, you didn't make it past the first level... In the first level the worms just run away from you because they're small but be careful because if the worm accidently takes a bite of you it will grow and actually try to eat you. Worms in the next levels hunt you rather than simply run away. I'm currently working on making the worms smarter.


I did pass the first level !
The problem still exists.

 
Alex Herz

February 04, 2005, 11:40 AM

I think Francois is quite aware that this is not the very best game of all times. Implying that he isn't is just mean.

I think for a start the game is quite ok. I've seen ppl doing much worse. It didn't crash or anything.
Furthermore, many games which do have blasting 3d gfx just suck on the gameplay side because most time was spend creating impressive gfx rather than good gameplay. This is especially true for professionaly made games.

I think it's good you concentrated on the game and got it done. Sure there is things to improve. You can build on top of it or create something completely new with what you learned here. So don't be discouraged by some of the comments. Some might even be helpful by hinting at how worm wars 2 could be an even better game.

Most hobby projects don't ever get to a point to be released because ppl spend too much time attempting to make it look like doom5 rather than getting it done.

Alex

 
Rui Martins

February 04, 2005, 12:27 PM

Just a note:
By game interface, I meant how you interact with the game, I didn't had graphics in mind, that was already mentioned before.

The important thing is that if the user usually assumes he can control is player with the cursors keys, then that should be supported and be the default configuration.

I for example expected two crash with the other worm when going head to head, but instead worms works like ghosts and they pass over each other, which is inconsistent with the eating process, where user expects one solid thing to eat another solid thing.

It's stuff like this that can make or break a game, that is what I was refering to as "Playbility/Usability".

P.S.
Everyone here wants to help, but people have to want to listen, work hard and improve, at least this is my perspective.

 
FrancoisSoft

February 04, 2005, 02:08 PM



Rui Martins wrote: I think you didn't get the meaning of what I said. "Playability/Usability", it's only related with how "enjoyable" is your game interface. People (players) tend to be annoyed if the interface is not what they expect!


For this kind of game a text interface is perfect. A graphical interface would not look much better.

Thas is very strange! After passing the head of the other worm I can make U turn and brake it near the head. Also it makes a very confusing output, expecially for a textual representation.


If the head go eaten then the worm would be dead right away and the game would be too easy. I made the head larger so that you can see it. Worms can't eat the head of other worms because it's too big to swallow.

I did pass the first level ! The problem still exists.


I thought you did. If that problem still exists then I'll have to put it on my bug list. I'm currently trying to work on the AI. The worms are quick but they don't seem to be too smart. Thanks for the tip. :)

 
FrancoisSoft

February 04, 2005, 02:15 PM



Alex Herz wrote: I think Francois is quite aware that this is not the very best game of all times. Implying that he isn't is just mean.


Well, how do you define best? Is it a game that has rich graphics or one that has good gameplay? Everyone has their own definition of best. Some people actually like games like this. I personally love this game. I play it quite a bit!

I think for a start the game is quite ok. I've seen ppl doing much worse. It didn't crash or anything.


I did spend a lot of time debugging it. Why do you hate the game? Have you played it?

Furthermore, many games which do have blasting 3d gfx just suck on the gameplay side because most time was spend creating impressive gfx rather than good gameplay. This is especially true for professionaly made games.


Very true. I mean look at Super Mario 64. Besides I'm not ready to deal with graphics yet. I'm just not in that stage.

I think it's good you concentrated on the game and got it done. Sure there is things to improve. You can build on top of it or create something completely new with what you learned here. So don't be discouraged by some of the comments. Some might even be helpful by hinting at how worm wars 2 could be an even better game.


I know, this is the first real project that I got done. In the past I did work on a graphical game called Quackoo vs Tie Fighter but that was so badly implemented that I could never do anything with it. At least this game is implemented well. The code is very easy to manage. Yes, Worm Wars does need to improve but this is only its debut. It was just born.

Most hobby projects don't ever get to a point to be released because ppl spend too much time attempting to make it look like doom5 rather than getting it done. Alex


I couldn't agree with that more. I started many projects in that past that I never finished because I either got too discouraged or simply created a monster that I could not manage.

 
FrancoisSoft

February 04, 2005, 02:17 PM

Maybe it won't facinate you but not everyone thinks like you. Some people actually like simple games like this. Right now the game is very young but in the future it might really be something. Try to look on the other side. Not all fun comes from graphics.

 
Alex Herz

February 05, 2005, 05:53 AM

You are right, "best" is a relative term. Ppl like different games..so talking about the "best game" is not 100% accurate. On the other hand you shouldn't take everything 100% literally.

FrancoisSoft wrote:
"I did spend a lot of time debugging it. Why do you hate the game? Have you played it?"

I played it I and I don't hate it. The gist of my last post was that the game is "quite ok" (or "not bad" in other words). It's positive that it didn't crash and a plus for your coding. What I meant to say is that the other ppl commenting should be less intimidating because your game is after all ok. So instead of being sacrastic in their comments they could be a bit more supportive.

Alex

 
FrancoisSoft

February 05, 2005, 08:39 AM

I agree. This game might never improve graphically but it will improve intellectually. In other words the worms will get smarter. Also the levels are subjected to change. i.e. There will be bonus rounds and multiplayer mode. I may colorize the worms for the latter purpose. Just stay tuned the game will change!

 
Scoot

February 18, 2005, 04:45 AM

This is a ludicrous amount of posts for the source material - its a snake game. move on.

 
Danny Chapman

February 18, 2005, 05:42 AM

Scoot wrote: This is a ludicrous amount of posts for the source material - its a snake game. move on.


No - it's a troll game

 
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